Thread: the OFF TOPIC to Stags shot 21 (discussion of wild animal management)

Originally Posted by bigbear

So hey kiwi hunter you shoot all the females but can you leave any heads/horns with potential for some foreign to come shoot, hold on wasn't it foreigners that all so pushed up house prices and fucked that for the average kiwis??
the average kiwi want be able to hunt in NZ on public land once a fee is involved.
Look at how many kiwi hunters miss out on ballots year after year to foreigners. If anything it should be draw to kiwis first and if there are any left over spots that's when they have the option of been given to a foreign hunter at a high cost
We also set up game parks for foreigners to come shoot animals in this country

I definitely don't agree that should be the case. Foreigners should definitely pay and it the cases of ballots etc they should pay significantly more similar to how it works in the states. Ie in Montana a deer and elk tag combo is about 100 for residents and a bit over 1000 for non residents. The fact of the matter is if we want to work towards healthy game management (whether for population control, ecosystem conservation, or trophy management) we need funding to do it and to do that it means we have to fund it somehow. If you lokk at the states in the US that made it super difficult for non residents to apply all of a sudden they had no funding as the majority of funding comes from non residents.

For NZ my suggestion would be for example if we just charged residents for the 3 month permits $20-30 then made foreigners pay 200-300 for that same permit. Its still a cheap hunt by international standards at that price and unless it reduces international public land hunters by over 10x it wouldn't loose any money vs just charging everyone the same. The issue with ballots is not allowing foreigners to apply its not charging them enough to do so. Ie I think for the Doc managed ballots they should be paying atleast $400 to apply as it will both reduce foreign applicants but likely increase total revenue from foreign applications. The issue is currently the ballots aren't managed well enough to ask that much due to unrestricted hunting the rest of the year. As for Wapiti I think the $130 foreign hunters (to be honest mainly Aussie) pay is way to low. If for example you consider your going to be in the $1000usd range for a tag anywhere else you can chase them public land we should be charging nearer $600-700 per international hunter. If there's a significant issue then set a limit to total international hunters in each ballot ie international hunters can only make up a total of 5-10% of ballots. Its common in the states to do that to ensure residents don't get overrun by non-residents.

I understand your sentiment that we should look after kiwis first but foreigners are a very good opportunity to give up a small portion of ballots etc to gain a significant amount of funding.

And we lastly I've heard the claim a few times that we set up game parks for foreigners to come shoot animals here. That's true to a point but that's a bit disingenuous. The fact is game was introduced to NZ as trophy hunting for wealthy domestic and international hunters from Britain etc so its not some new idea. It was only a population explosion meant it became available to the everyman. Also those coming to hunt public land are not the same as those here chasing big trophy park deer. The difference between nz public and "free range" trophy parks is becoming well known about in the states and those that want a real hunt will either come and do it on public or the likes of some of the genuine free range wild herd hunting. Game parks were created a byproduct of velvet farming and because unregulated hunting meant that it was impossible to reliably find mature stags for international clients in the period of a 7-10 day hunt.

Realistically if people where selfless for say 5 years and no one shot any nice yound stag. It would then be feasible that any area has a genuine chance of getting a great trophy. I think any deer that genuinely 7 plus years of age is a exceptional trophy/achievement. The thing is everyone shooting young stags means we don't see old stags. Even just with 2 slow years of waro and one skipped roar stags numbers and quality have improved significantly.

I get no one wants to be the first to do it as It hurts watching areas I leave stags in get hammered but its similar to the steal or share experiment where 2 party's have a prize pool and they both have to choose to share or steal the prize. If they both choose share they get half each but if the steal and the other shares they get it all, if they both choose to steal however neither get anything. We as hunters are all choosing to steal and as such we are all losing out but not one wants to say share as someone else might get everything.