Also what guiding organisation in the world thinks its good policy to actively encourage shooting at running animals? Especially under such dubious conditions.
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Also what guiding organisation in the world thinks its good policy to actively encourage shooting at running animals? Especially under such dubious conditions.
I hope you guys enjoy walking in to the hills, because if you are going to boycott all those involved in aerial assist hunts, there's not many left to fly with.
I dont think anyone is talking of boycotts. And yep sadly its a very prevalent activity for the company's. But thats kind of irrelevant too whats going on here and has nothing to do with wether it should be happening or not.
But yes By and large I do walk in to these areas and have not used a chopper to access Tahr country for myself in about 6-8 years. Maybe more.
In Alaska you cannot hunt the day you fly in.
They must love jumping out of the chopper and into it here.
What are the rules for helicopter/hunting NZ/DOC administered land.
I've used a chopper to get into hunting blocks and walked to hunt thereafter. Legally too, I ask about the concession held, it's funny the answer you get if they don't hold a concession, goes all squirrely (pun intended) and from my end goes no further, they ain't getting my $.
The Mathews guy isn't listed as a guide in the NZPHGA.
His guiding outfit advertised on the web/fb etc - easy to find. Based south of Geraldine. In regards to hazing the animal, didn't see the chopper in the link doing this but obviously close by. Maybe Whanahuia should send the link to DOC to get an opinion? I wrote a submission years ago against use of AATH and my thoughts haven't changed - unethical but its permitted apart from hazing.
The hazing thing is a grey area, under the AATH guidelines herding animals with the chopper is permitted, hazing not. Which is a total cop-out and a sop that the NZPHGA should be ashamed of and oppose.
I beleive the video has been captured in case its taken down and is in better hands than mine. As far as DOC gos. I have absolutely no faith in them treating anything with this issue with good faith.
Some years back myself and a mate spent a couple of hours laying a formal complaint and being interviewed about actions we observed regarding this issue. Only to find out when I enquired later that the complaint and interview had never been lodged and Doc had no record of it. I suspect the formal report we signed went straight in the bin after we walked out the door.
We are now recording any and all communications we have with local govt/govt departments. The level of bias and incompetence beggars belief.
We saw animals shot inside the greenstone capless rha from chopper and doc didn't follow it up as pilot was well known local....
If you have video evidence simply give it to the police, it's unlawful hunting.By pass DOC as they are well known for "corrupt " behavior in the past when it comes to their friends that fly the local helicopter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Was years ago...we did what we could and got no where. It happens.
This is the conflict, where greed gets in the way of any sportsmanship or consideration for others. Check out this video from 38 minutes on. I know this spot, these guys probably did 6-8 hours of bashing through untracked bush to get there. On top of a days walk too the base of the climb. Camped up for an early start next morning and in comes a chopper, sees them and then lands guys a couple of hundred meters in front of them and chases the animals off.
You have to ask why in every single fucking video, we see appalling behaviour from those doing the Helihunting?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnyVxS927BA
Well mate…I enjoyed the video immensly……I haunted that area 30 yrs ago …still bloody beautiful stuff
Yep, and yet constantly you hear how the clients on these helihunts are told its too steep to hunt, or its impossible to get too. And yet many of us Like yourself have been or are hunting there on foot.
It is to steep for some of them. But, they have the money to make it happen. And New Zealand makes rules which allow it to happen.
So it's basic supply and demand.
Voicing an opinion on this, or any other forum is not going to change anything. Getting up the ones who make the rules is the best way to get action (I'm not giving advice on how to do that as I got banned recently for giving such advice)
I am not in favour of aerial assist hunting, but if it were the only way I could get a Tahr, and the funds were available I may change my mind.
We all hunt in different ways, and as soon as we decide someone else's method should be deleted (as kiwi hunters are very good at) we alienate a section who we really need on our side.
And in this case these people usually have the funds to support action against the anti hunting side.
If you read some of the international hunting publications, these people invest huge amounts on fighting the antis.
These people are quite capable, with thier money, of doing a perfectly acceptable easier hunt on private land where they don not create such impact. They will also continue to contribute whether helihunting exists or not.
So there is the catch 22. If the $$$$ are happy to spend them on private land,and the cash strapped governments are happy to accept the tax $$$$ of said operations to help prop up the economy.what incentive is there for said government departments to keep said $$$$ inside private boundaries??? That's right none at all. And when you have the likes of Forest n bird screaming fowl/foul over leaving select types age groups of animals out of taxpayer funded airial culling operations and threatening to sue fwf for doing same.it is a rock n a hard place. Yes in ideal world the $$$$ be kept off public domain but reality is they aren't going to be as long as operators keep promising to deliver free range public land hunts the ones doing it will continue to compete with foot hunters.its always been that way since the meat hawks started shooting from the machines way back when many of us were still young if indeed born .
Until we adopt the X number of hours between fly and shoot rule and find a way to cheaply police it we are stuck where we are. And the cynic in me sees the loophole immediately.fly in,camp in hot tent and woken at ten AM by whirlybird shepherding the animals down to where the client is enjoying their bacon n eggs with freshly brewed coffee served by white coated serving staff..... Actually that would bring in more tax dollars in wage taxes and increased cost to client. So until you can stop the machine chasing the animal you are stuck in similar rut. GPS tracking in conjunction with a watchdog organisation funded by fee on guiding perhaps????which brings a tag system closer still. Local Vs guided overseas tags MIGHT control it but keeping greed and corruption out would be the challenge.
Well that didnt take long. Video has now been removed from Youtube. I guess they woke up this morning and suddenly became un-proud of their efforts.
Not a good look for a silver fern farm stock buyer.....and the son is a builder who has been involved of ...ummm shall we just say being in possession of animal harvesting equipment on property he didn't have permission to be on and police were involved.
DoC were quite clever with the heli-hunting approval process. They oblige operators to provide a cull of females ( IIRC) as a part of the concession. I'm unsure if that cull has to be in proximity of any commercial activity or not, but either way it requires the operators to do stuff in the backcountry.Quote:
Originally Posted by whanahuia
And yet I had a member of the NZPHGA tell me he doesnt worry about the offsets, hasnt shot any nannies for the past 2 seasons. Cos DoC dont police it! Its a total scam.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx
Yeah I was lead to beleive the nanny control was on a "You tell us how many you shot." trust style basis. No actual checking on compliance carried out.
A lot of you guys are forgetting, or haven't heard of Hanlon's Razor: never ascribe to conspiracy that can be adequately explained by incompetence.
There is no DOC conspiracy... Just a bunch of people who probably care but are hampered by bureaucratic pedantry or uncaring senior leaders and are rendered incompetent at a departmental level
Identify your target beyond all doubt because you never miss (right?) and I'll be missed.
Gotta disagree, sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eat Meater
For issues like this its been apparent forever that DoC have something between little and no regard for rec hunters, and that they want ungulates dealt to. Their interest in holding these guys to the so-called rules (even if they were resourced to do so) is zip.
And that's why complaining to DoC about non-compliance is a waste of time. Maybe start with the GAC, if you have evidence of breaches?
pretty damn close Eat Meater - they dont like spending money on anything that was not previously budgeted for like a court case - and they are saving birds don't ya know - ( fire is separate budget shared out amongst a number of agencies under rural fire fund ) but a court case they would have to find money somewhere so many law enforcement cases just go into big round thing - hazing a thar would not get much go ahead as a court case unless huge public out cry on the news media lots of attention and they are then shoved into action - now land a private helicopter in a wilderness area and they likely be onto ya like ton of bricks - go figure
There is a mix of both and more. There are some really good people in doc. They are just not in a position to affect this issue. Some of it is a lack of funding and resources. Some of it is a total hatred of ungulates in any form and a dislike of hunters. And some of it also is that the guides and pilots doing these activities are part of thier community and they work with them in other areas of operations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eat Meater
I see article on stuff the son Caleb is in the shit again.