Plagues of Rats and Mice

Well I've been working from Dunedin for several weeks now,I've been for my morning walk around the hill to stretch the ole legs, washed me truck polished the wheels all ready for another week pounding the highways of the South Island ,so now I've got nothing to do except have a ramble on here.
I've been very intrigued by these reports of plague numbers of rats in the bush and now mice as well,large numbers of dead rats washed up on west coast beaches , some say killed by 1080 but apparently not according to Doc, some say they drowned but I would've thought rats are good swimmers .
I'm reminded of a roar trip into the north western Ruahines ,bout 4or 5 yrs ago been hunting same general area for 10 yrs now, this patictular year we had plagues of mice , they were everywhere,into our tucker ,running over us during the night, it didn't matter if we were down in creek or up on the ridges, they were there
The next year camping in the same spots ,not a skeerick ,zilch no sign of the blighters and hardly noticed any in recent trips either .
So I'm wondering if it's ole Mother Nature ,she decides things are a bit out of whack and put things back in balance, if there's that many they must run out of feed pretty quickly and add in a few extreme weather events ,snow ,rain ,freezing temps maybe they don't last long anyway.
Anyway that's enough rambling from me . Cheers

good thread,,we had pig explosions in the ureweras but once they got too thick next yr down theyd go

Same with Sika. In the Ecology creek they got to plague proportions and got thinner and thinner and started dying. Then the population sort of settled. They did some damage to the bush in the mean time though. This was maybe 1985-90.

It was referred to as "Sika Die Back" by DOC and occurred right through that upper Rangatikei river area but the Ecology seemed to be the worst.

No natural predators except man.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Same with Sika. In the Ecology creek they got to plague proportions and got thinner and thinner and started dying. Then the population sort of settled. They did some damage to the bush in the mean time though. This was maybe 1985-90.

It was referred to as "Sika Die Back" by DOC and occurred right through that upper Rangatikei river area but the Ecology seemed to be the worst.

No natural predators except man.

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like that ecology area,,if those turkeys at dept of cnuts were to let hunters land as and when we could have a good go and help the deer out

There was a study done many years ago. The report named "Lake Monk Expedition" I think.
It studied an undisturbed red deer herd (NZ) and established that the deer found their own stable population level. Can't recall whether NZFS or DSIR did it. The report came out in a tidy publication so could still probably be found.

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Originally Posted by 264 magic

like that ecology area,,if those turkeys at dept of cnuts were to let hunters land as and when we could have a good go and help the deer out

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They put a pad in at the mouth eventually but its use was fairly restricted. I used to go in through the saddle in the headwaters via Makorako. Bugger of a walk.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

They put a pad in at the mouth eventually but its use was fairly restricted. I used to go in through the saddle in the headwaters via Makorako. Bugger of a walk.

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joe keeley used to drop us in a saddle above the mangamaire,,reds n sika of course,,very enjoyable spot(about halfway up the mangamaire but time does cloud the mind)

nature finds a balance and always has, even before we turned up on the scene.

Nature tends deal with things it’s own way but wont be suprised tho if doc use this as an excuse to start bombing areas.

Its true though that NZ's natural balance got dealt a bum hand with the introduction of so many mammals that had no natural predators.

and a double bum hand when we chucked predators into equation with little thought of the concequenses...... I believe mountain lions were looked at...then someone realised they like taste of mutton so that plan was quickly squashed.

Where did you come in from Tahr? Boyd/Mangamingi?

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Originally Posted by Maxx

Where did you come in from Tahr? Boyd/Mangamingi?

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3 ways. The Boyd/Managamingi/Island Range walk and Urchin/Thunderbolt and down. Later on I did some trips getting dropped off in the Makorako stream and hoofing it over the saddle into the Ecology. That only took and hour or so.

I once headed off via the polled route off the Desert Rd for Ecology but the hunting was so good mid way I never got to Ecology.

The silliest walk I ever did was to see some mates who were in Ken's hut in the Tauranga Taupo and I went via Kiko Rd and up over the top. That was a tough trip.

Yep have seen same things with rodents. Remember seeing a plague of rats a few years back too. If you are seeing them out and about there are a million of the wee buggars there. I also noticed the same thing. They were all gone the next year. Problem is that in that time they do huge damage and our natives get hammered in the mean time. When you talk about deer and bush and rodents and mast years etc etc. the 'natural' balance means that a lot of native species disappear. Looking at how sika modify the bush is quite dramatic in places. Broadleaf only grows under a cm in height (below browse height) or out of cliffs. Or in older trees that established when deer were not in numbers. This thread is really at the heart of the confusion and conflict between hunters and conservationists. Lets be honest folks, some hunters still think if the bush still looks green and there are plants growing then things must be OK. And some conservationists believe that one deer is one too many. We need people who speak and understand both languages to interpret for both parties and help find a practical, workable happy middle ground.

More rats on Stewart Island than I have ever seen anywhere. Would have seen over 500 easily last week while we were there. If you sat in the bush for longer than 10 minutes you could guarantee at least one would walk past. Next time I think I'll take a slug gun and go rat hunting instead of deer hunting! A local lady has killed several thousand around Oban thru spring. Theoretically, rats have been there hundreds of years? We watched the rats eating insects on the beach, moss and looking for bugs under sticks. Interesting watching them searching for food.
Funnily enough we saw hundreds of native birds, including many many young ones. And a huge range of species, I counted over 11 different species of native bird in one evening sitting on a beach waiting for deer. We also saw a few cats (fat ones) and possums.
I was told Doc are planning aerial Brodi for the Island, not 100% if that's going ahead or not? Might be a bit silly considering Brodi killed some Kaka at the wildlife refuge in Dunedin last week...

Saw 5/6 mice while hunting during the day in western southland last week not something I have seen before so definitly a few about I would think.

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Originally Posted by JoshC

Funnily enough we saw hundreds of native birds, including many many young ones. And a huge range of species, I counted over 11 different species of native bird in one evening sitting on a beach waiting for deer.

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It's what happens when the food on the ground thins out, rats turn to birds. I've seen 3 of the kōkako nests I've found and monitoring raided by rats so far this season, and it's early days yet...

I was down of Stewart Island the weekend prior to this one, and saw heaps of rats during the day on the wee track around Dead Mans Beach/Horse shoe point.

Wallabies too. They are causing some serious damage to the tussock lands and spreading in leaps and bounds :)

Shooting can seem to hold the numbers to target population levels but not the spread. Night vision is a wonderful new tool.

I think the warming of the seasons is having a definite impact. More seed and more food more often and milder conditions means more pests and greater survival of their young to breed again too. And more extreme population events. One of the better documented impacts of ship rats was a small island in the southern ocean. Rats arrived there in the sixties and within five years had exploded and some bird species extinct there within that time frame and all birds heavily depleted. Scary stuff. Rodents leave no stone unturned when it comes to the quest for food. From underground to the tree tops. And kill out of all proportion to their size. Remember recently the reports of mice killing petrel chicks in their burrows? I kept mice as a kid. Gestation of three weeks, litter size around ten and sexually mature at a month old. Do the maths on that!! Compare that to a gecko that has one to two young per year and is sexually mature at four years old. A big rodent event can take many many years to recover from. And that is without mentioning female stoats that can carry sperm from when they were mated as a kitten then release it as soon as rodent numbers go up. New Zealand has some huge challenges in front of them. I wish DOC and hunters could work better together for pest control projects. DOC is really missing out there. There is plenty of money in the hunting industry but hunters are way too wary of being used and abused. There can be such a win win in my opinion.

I’ve seen a lot more weasels on the river beds this year. Regularly see one per trip this year. Lots of rabbit kittens around so I guess this is the driver for higher predator numbers.

Iv been trapping our 10ha place for a few years now, rural with some forestry boundaries. Rat numbers are low here now, maybe 1-2 per week, have caught 1 ferret and a dozen stoats.

What traps do you use? Have you tried those Good Nature ones?

Doc 150s in a tunnel box. We have 7-8 good nature 24s. They work but I’m not overly impressed with their lures. Tried a few but peanut butter and/or chicken necks seem to catch better. The counters are a must. Before them we had no idea what was going on as the carcasses would be snapped up by Hawkes, wekas or other rats etc.
Had 2for a while back

I use the Goodnature trap here in the USA as I had issues with mice getting into my range building and the barn/garage and was tired of the usual mousetraps. The chocolate lure worked ok but peanut butter and similar things work good too. I found the Goodnature trap effective and it was killing mice faster than they could reproduce. Also ended a blend of bait blocks around the buildings and it keeps mice/chipmunk/squirrel activity to a minimum or nonexistent. Especially at the range building the family of foxes living on the mountain, stop and grab the dead mice carcasses on their daily patrol.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Wallabies too. They are causing some serious damage to the tussock lands and spreading in leaps and bounds :)

Shooting can seem to hold the numbers to target population levels but not the spread. Night vision is a wonderful new tool.

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unfortunately the lock up of private property is a problem with containment,,i for one want lots and lots of wallys running around,plenty of rough country around the lewis area for reintroduction and what about Marlborough

yes the locked up private land will always be a problem when trying to control a population.....

Has anyone noticed that every year is a mast year now? Well at least every year is a DOC press release claiming its a mast year so they need more 1080. I remember when mast years were every seven years or so...

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Originally Posted by hokonui

Saw 5/6 mice while hunting during the day in western southland last week not something I have seen before so definitly a few about I would think.

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Last weekend I was surprised to see around half a dozen mice during the day while hunting in North Canterbury. Also two dead ones, which looked fairly plump and healthy so I'm not sure what killed them.

A mate has been catching trout jam-packed with mice. Some interesting thermal scope footage on the Complete Angler Facebook page showing a heap of mice too in a typical bush scene.

@JoshC. Worst one Ive seen in over 30 yrs of living on the island. And most likely in its history of rat occupation. The lady trapping round the bay is my partner and we have a small business catching rats, cats and possums. Her work stories take some beating Would bet my left boot there will be a decline in bird no;s for a while. Also the flow on effect of cats will have big implications going forward.

whats NZ like for feral cats? our plagues of them are probably what keeps the plagues of rats and mice down

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Originally Posted by Tahr

3 ways. The Boyd/Managamingi/Island Range walk and Urchin/Thunderbolt and down. Later on I did some trips getting dropped off in the Makorako stream and hoofing it over the saddle into the Ecology. That only took and hour or so.

I once headed off via the polled route off the Desert Rd for Ecology but the hunting was so good mid way I never got to Ecology.

The silliest walk I ever did was to see some mates who were in Ken's hut in the Tauranga Taupo and I went via Kiko Rd and up over the top. That was a tough trip.

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Surprised you found the walk to Kens tough compared to the Rangitikei via Urchin/T'bolt? That is an honest walk!

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Originally Posted by ghosts

@JoshC. Worst one Ive seen in over 30 yrs of living on the island. And most likely in its history of rat occupation. The lady trapping round the bay is my partner and we have a small business catching rats, cats and possums. Her work stories take some beating Would bet my left boot there will be a decline in bird no;s for a while. Also the flow on effect of cats will have big implications going forward.

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Oh awesome. Sounds like shes doing an awesome job! Lots of cats huh, we usually shoot a couple each trip. This year they were fat and lazy...for obvious reasons!