Thread: A question for the doubters

Although I have no scientific evidence for this, so am unlikely to impress @gimp, (and my apologies if this has already been covered in the screeds of research that I haven't looked at) but I find it hard to believe that the "shock' of a bullet entering an animal does not have a big impact on its immediate incapacitation. You sometimes see on slow motion video a ripple run through the animal when it is hit, as the bullet releases energy into the animal. I liken it to being hit in the chest with a sledgehammer. In this case, because the impact is spread over a large area, no wound channel is created and there is no apparent tissue damage, but the blow will definitely incapacitate. As we have all probably experienced, being "winded" can be totally incapacitating, to the point of not being able to stand or breath. Usually within a few minutes we recover, but in the case of a terminal bullet wound, the animal will not. I don't believe the results of a ballistic gel test would have any way to relate this effect to the shooting of an animal because there is no permanent physical damage caused that can be observed and measured.

That's why even lethally hit dear run off when Bow shot, minimal impact shock?

Originally Posted by Bushline

That's why even lethally hit dear run off when Bow shot, minimal impact shock?

Wound is less than the minimum size required for fast incapacitation with lung shot. Very small wound from a bow through lungs. No incapacitation from CNS damage in most cases. Bullets make bigger wounds. We don't know how small the minimum is for "satisfactory" results but it appears that an arrow wound is often below that minimum.

Originally Posted by Shearer

Although I have no scientific evidence for this, so am unlikely to impress @gimp, (and my apologies if this has already been covered in the screeds of research that I haven't looked at) but I find it hard to believe that the "shock' of a bullet entering an animal does not have a big impact on its immediate incapacitation. You sometimes see on slow motion video a ripple run through the animal when it is hit, as the bullet releases energy into the animal. I liken it to being hit in the chest with a sledgehammer. In this case, because the impact is spread over a large area, no wound channel is created and there is no apparent tissue damage, but the blow will definitely incapacitate. As we have all probably experienced, being "winded" can be totally incapacitating, to the point of not being able to stand or breath. Usually within a few minutes we recover, but in the case of a terminal bullet wound, the animal will not. I don't believe the results of a ballistic gel test would have any way to relate this effect to the shooting of an animal because there is no permanent physical damage caused that can be observed and measured.

Yep. Ive been going through whatever papers I can access this morning. Until I realised it was a sidetrack. Basically they said the projectile shape was biggest factor with frontal surface area creating both the biggest permanent and temporary cavities. What most did seem to spend time on was the imperfections of modelling in a homogenous compound.
Also the bigger the muscle, the more KE needed. For permanent cavities the best was a Brenneke slug.

And so it comes back too real world experience and we can probably all attest too less likelihood of an animal dropping and staying down long enough to expire with smaller projectiles.

Unless you hit the CNS.
It makes sense that an 80gr 223 is better than a 55gr 223 in that sense sure, and I dont doubt that enough is enough. But I have also seen when enough isn't quite enough. Doesn't mean the animal didnt die. But it did or might mean its harder to find/recover, and so having a projectile that performs with a little bit more leeway is never a bad thing.

An arrow actually creates quite a large permanent cavity. An inch and a half still spinning as it cuts through. Bullet or arrow, the cavity is about blood loss. But what it dosen't do, is create the extra temporary cavity or impart a heap of kinetic energy, or efficiently break bone. Yet due too its weight it has plenty of momentum. You can see what part of the equation is missing.

Originally Posted by whanahuia

An arrow actually creates quite a large permanent cavity. An inch and a half still spinning as it cuts through.

maybe. maybe not ?