Thread: A question for the doubters

Long post here, but I hope you all enjoy it. it will make sense by the end i hope.


Part one.

As well as calving and feeding calves, its also tree planting time of the year. Right now Im part way through planting 1100 Eucalypts, Jap cedar, Walnuts and chestnuts.

With planting comes animal control/ resource management. I never call it pest control. its balance. I need to get the hares in the plantation area supressed so the trees have a chance.
So the first fine night this week saw me out with the .22 and subs, spotlighting. I came home really chuffed with myself! 16-18 hares seen. 14 shots fired at ranges from 20-60 meters. Most off hand with the spotlight in one hand and rifle in other resting on spotlight. Result- 12 dead hares with one other I think I got but lost track of where it was after the shot and couldn't find it in long grass.

The point of that is that right now Im shooting well and confidently.

Confidence makes a difference.

But there were a few that bolted before I felt comfortable with the distance. So today when the sun came out I took the next lot of trees and my 270 in case some longer shots presented.

Part two.

I get too the planting area, and bloody hell theres a pig in some rough country a couple of paddock back. I grab the rifle and cut round to get wind right and sneak up. As I get closer, the pig turns into a mob, rooting around in some cutover and sprayed out gorse im developing. I guess I get into about 40 meters from them when out of the bush comes 3 more and one is a decent boar. As he approaches I notice his size, the shield crease where it terminates on his foreleg, and the absolute width of his chest. Hes a big boy! And suddenly this thread pops into my mind at about the point in time he realises something is wrong!

Now I am sorry if I upset anyone, but whats in my mind is. As he pauses to look at me from 60 meters. That I would not take this quartering forward shot with my 6.5 grendel. Or a 243. And certainly not with a 223 no matter how good the projectile. It would be a headshot, or Id wait for him to turn and shooting him quartering away. That crease tells me hes got close to 50mm of sheild, plus bone at that angle. alot of it. If I wait for him to turn, he might run and reality is, doing so reduces my success by 20%.
Standing headshot. I know I can do it, but it increases risk that I dont feel when shooting hares.

But I have a 270! and so the projectile takes him on the point of the shoulder and he hits the ground with whatever colloquialism you choose. Sacked, bang flop etc.

Before I continue, Ill address the vids Gimp just posted. Most roe are harvested for market. The shot as seen there in the vid that is preferred is a behind the shoulder lung shot that damages little meat. With a heavy constructed projectile that will impart only some of its energy given the size of the deer. Having shot Roe, I can say they are prone to run in such cases.
I dont think anyone here is suggesting shooting reds or fallow with a 404 jeffery is particularly the optimum either.

Tahrs shot definitely transferred energy to the CNS. You can see it in the shiver the deer gave just after.

The boar went 170lb on the dot.

Heres the interesting bits so far.




The boar. Note the shield crease.



Front on showing his chest thickness.



The blood from his thoracic cavity.



Where the projectile went through his lungs.

Now as I read in the papers today, it said that the bigger the muscle/bone tissue of the animal, the more energy needed to create large permanent and temporary cavities.

So its not that surprising that the hole in the lungs of this boar is quite equivalent too the one from the arrow in Gimps photos.

Given the small size of the permanent cavity through the lungs, what dropped the boar on the spot long enough for him to bleed out and die? There is an entry wound and exit wound in the ribcage. Its probable Ive broken leg bones given the angle. Ill find out tomorrow. No obvious injury directly too the spine.

Originally Posted by whanahuia

Long post here, but I hope you all enjoy it. it will make sense by the end i hope.


Part one.

As well as calving and feeding calves, its also tree planting time of the year. Right now Im part way through planting 1100 Eucalypts, Jap cedar, Walnuts and chestnuts.

With planting comes animal control/ resource management. I never call it pest control. its balance. I need to get the hares in the plantation area supressed so the trees have a chance.
So the first fine night this week saw me out with the .22 and subs, spotlighting. I came home really chuffed with myself! 16-18 hares seen. 14 shots fired at ranges from 20-60 meters. Most off hand with the spotlight in one hand and rifle in other resting on spotlight. Result- 12 dead hares with one other I think I got but lost track of where it was after the shot and couldn't find it in long grass.

The point of that is that right now Im shooting well and confidently.

Confidence makes a difference.

But there were a few that bolted before I felt comfortable with the distance. So today when the sun came out I took the next lot of trees and my 270 in case some longer shots presented.

Part two.

I get too the planting area, and bloody hell theres a pig in some rough country a couple of paddock back. I grab the rifle and cut round to get wind right and sneak up. As I get closer, the pig turns into a mob, rooting around in some cutover and sprayed out gorse im developing. I guess I get into about 40 meters from them when out of the bush comes 3 more and one is a decent boar. As he approaches I notice his size, the shield crease where it terminates on his foreleg, and the absolute width of his chest. Hes a big boy! And suddenly this thread pops into my mind at about the point in time he realises something is wrong!

Now I am sorry if I upset anyone, but whats in my mind is. As he pauses to look at me from 60 meters. That I would not take this quartering forward shot with my 6.5 grendel. Or a 243. And certainly not with a 223 no matter how good the projectile. It would be a headshot, or Id wait for him to turn and shooting him quartering away. That crease tells me hes got close to 50mm of sheild, plus bone at that angle. alot of it. If I wait for him to turn, he might run and reality is, doing so reduces my success by 20%.
Standing headshot. I know I can do it, but it increases risk that I dont feel when shooting hares.

But I have a 270! and so the projectile takes him on the point of the shoulder and he hits the ground with whatever colloquialism you choose. Sacked, bang flop etc.

Before I continue, Ill address the vids Gimp just posted. Most roe are harvested for market. The shot as seen there in the vid that is preferred is a behind the shoulder lung shot that damages little meat. With a heavy constructed projectile that will impart only some of its energy given the size of the deer. Having shot Roe, I can say they are prone to run in such cases.
I dont think anyone here is suggesting shooting reds or fallow with a 404 jeffery is particularly the optimum either.

Tahrs shot definitely transferred energy to the CNS. You can see it in the shiver the deer gave just after.

The boar went 170lb on the dot.

Heres the interesting bits so far.




The boar. Note the shield crease.



Front on showing his chest thickness.



The blood from his thoracic cavity.



Where the projectile went through his lungs.

Now as I read in the papers today, it said that the bigger the muscle/bone tissue of the animal, the more energy needed to create large permanent and temporary cavities.

So its not that surprising that the hole in the lungs of this boar is quite equivalent too the one from the arrow in Gimps photos.

Given the small size of the permanent cavity through the lungs, what dropped the boar on the spot long enough for him to bleed out and die? There is an entry wound and exit wound in the ribcage. Its probable Ive broken leg bones given the angle. Ill find out tomorrow. No obvious injury directly too the spine.

Haha I was just waiting for someone to come up with a big boar "shield" story but you've spoilt the fun by using a 270!

Originally Posted by whanahuia

Long post here, but I hope you all enjoy it. it will make sense by the end i hope.


Part one.

As well as calving and feeding calves, its also tree planting time of the year. Right now Im part way through planting 1100 Eucalypts, Jap cedar, Walnuts and chestnuts.

With planting comes animal control/ resource management. I never call it pest control. its balance. I need to get the hares in the plantation area supressed so the trees have a chance.
So the first fine night this week saw me out with the .22 and subs, spotlighting. I came home really chuffed with myself! 16-18 hares seen. 14 shots fired at ranges from 20-60 meters. Most off hand with the spotlight in one hand and rifle in other resting on spotlight. Result- 12 dead hares with one other I think I got but lost track of where it was after the shot and couldn't find it in long grass.

The point of that is that right now Im shooting well and confidently.

Confidence makes a difference.

But there were a few that bolted before I felt comfortable with the distance. So today when the sun came out I took the next lot of trees and my 270 in case some longer shots presented.

Part two.

I get too the planting area, and bloody hell theres a pig in some rough country a couple of paddock back. I grab the rifle and cut round to get wind right and sneak up. As I get closer, the pig turns into a mob, rooting around in some cutover and sprayed out gorse im developing. I guess I get into about 40 meters from them when out of the bush comes 3 more and one is a decent boar. As he approaches I notice his size, the shield crease where it terminates on his foreleg, and the absolute width of his chest. Hes a big boy! And suddenly this thread pops into my mind at about the point in time he realises something is wrong!

Now I am sorry if I upset anyone, but whats in my mind is. As he pauses to look at me from 60 meters. That I would not take this quartering forward shot with my 6.5 grendel. Or a 243. And certainly not with a 223 no matter how good the projectile. It would be a headshot, or Id wait for him to turn and shooting him quartering away. That crease tells me hes got close to 50mm of sheild, plus bone at that angle. alot of it. If I wait for him to turn, he might run and reality is, doing so reduces my success by 20%.
Standing headshot. I know I can do it, but it increases risk that I dont feel when shooting hares.

But I have a 270! and so the projectile takes him on the point of the shoulder and he hits the ground with whatever colloquialism you choose. Sacked, bang flop etc.

Before I continue, Ill address the vids Gimp just posted. Most roe are harvested for market. The shot as seen there in the vid that is preferred is a behind the shoulder lung shot that damages little meat. With a heavy constructed projectile that will impart only some of its energy given the size of the deer. Having shot Roe, I can say they are prone to run in such cases.
I dont think anyone here is suggesting shooting reds or fallow with a 404 jeffery is particularly the optimum either.

Tahrs shot definitely transferred energy to the CNS. You can see it in the shiver the deer gave just after.

The boar went 170lb on the dot.

Heres the interesting bits so far.




The boar. Note the shield crease.



Front on showing his chest thickness.



The blood from his thoracic cavity.



Where the projectile went through his lungs.

Now as I read in the papers today, it said that the bigger the muscle/bone tissue of the animal, the more energy needed to create large permanent and temporary cavities.

So its not that surprising that the hole in the lungs of this boar is quite equivalent too the one from the arrow in Gimps photos.

Given the small size of the permanent cavity through the lungs, what dropped the boar on the spot long enough for him to bleed out and die? There is an entry wound and exit wound in the ribcage. Its probable Ive broken leg bones given the angle. Ill find out tomorrow. No obvious injury directly too the spine.

Unfortunately I don't have a standardised experimental 170lb pig to also shoot with the .223 to see if the wound looks any different. Have you got one I can borrow?

This however is the last pig I shot - in May, with a 55gr Nosler Etip from .223, he was trotting across a face at about 150m, the shot was placed in the front shoulder through the shield, dropped him on the spot, and he rolled down the hill. I'm unsure on time-to-death as he ended up in some scrub. Laminated A4 paper for scale. I don't have autopsy data available unfortunately. It broke bone and penetrated through the lungs - you can see the bloody foam on his nose. I'll go find another.

Impact energy was about 700ftlb. Impact velocity about 2400fps. The E-tip is a good non-lead bullet, unfortunately it is lighter than I would select for personal use - the exterior ballistics aren't great.

Originally Posted by gimp

Unfortunately I don't have a standardised experimental 170lb pig to also shoot with the .223 to see if the wound looks any different. Have you got one I can borrow?

This however is the last pig I shot - in May, with a 55gr Nosler Etip from .223, he was trotting across a face at about 150m, the shot was placed in the front shoulder through the shield, dropped him on the spot, and he rolled down the hill. I'm unsure on time-to-death as he ended up in some scrub. Laminated A4 paper for scale. I don't have autopsy data available unfortunately. It broke bone and penetrated through the lungs - you can see the bloody foam on his nose. I'll go find another.

Impact energy was about 700ftlb. Impact velocity about 2400fps. The E-tip is a good non-lead bullet, unfortunately it is lighter than I would select for personal use - the exterior ballistics aren't great.

Attachment 258502

I used the E tips a bit. Mostly on fallow and pigs. To be fair id probably take that shot too. Though I might go lower and aim for the heart and expect it too run a little.

If you are passing give me a yell. There are some big pigs here. we can try find one. Like all things though they are random guests that show when least expected.

Ill back you up with my old museum piece.