Resurgence of interest in the old "Three Oh"?

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Originally Posted by Jhon

Which makes them technically pretty average as a sporting rifle, for all the reasons mimms2, gave plus a few. And I have 3 of them which I enjoy greatly. Haven't found a battle yet tho to test their original merits. Oh, and they got their arse kicked I believe by the Boers with the 7X57mm Mauser. But the Germans found them uncomfortable at close quarters en masses. And on the battle field they were prized above the P14 which was a damn fine design, just didn't suit the trenches mud and blood too much. Horses for courses yes?

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No

You are as incorrect as Mimms is

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Originally Posted by Jhon

Which makes them technically pretty average as a sporting rifle, for all the reasons mimms2, gave plus a few. And I have 3 of them which I enjoy greatly. Haven't found a battle yet tho to test their original merits. Oh, and they got their arse kicked I believe by the Boers with the 7X57mm Mauser. But the Germans found them uncomfortable at close quarters en masses. And on the battle field they were prized above the P14 which was a damn fine design, just didn't suit the trenches mud and blood too much. Horses for courses yes?

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You are mixing up Long Toms and Cavalry Carbines used in the 2nd Boer War with the later SMLE.
Issues then were the ammo, single loading, poor marksmanship and training for the modern type of war.
All issues were resolved by the time WW1 broke out with the small, but superbly trained British Regular Army carrying the SMLE III with its adjustable windage, charger bridge feeding and spitzer ammo.

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Originally Posted by mimms2

Were any of the things I said incorrect?



I'm not arguing they weren't good battle rifles. Nor am I arguing they were inferior to other offerings of their day. And it's not that I don't like them, even (I really do) You're just making shit up.

And I don't see how a crap trigger is any advantage to anyone anywhere...
Maybe you're pissed again?

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Everything in your first post is incorrect, the two stage trigger pull was ment to help stop ND's.

You alter it to single stage if you want to.

Go do some reading before you yodle more codshit.

Geez; everyone calm down please :)

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Originally Posted by mimms2

Who pissed in your weetbix dude.

I keep my finger off it, to avoid NDs.
"Alter it" is not speaking to "the rifle as it technically is"

So you're saying enfields are not:
Rear-locking;
with a technically horrendous trigger;
have skinny barrels;
are chambered in .303brit which is and ancient (relatively speaking) chambering (Considering that this current year is 2021)

Are you fucking high? Or having a stroke? Do you need medical atention?

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You have missed the operative word your initial statement was based upon:

"Technically"

Instead you have simply listed your opinion without knowing why certain things you dont like were there in the first place, two stage trigger aside.

I would like to argue with someone semi lucid.

Can you put the booze and smokes down for a month and come back to this thread.

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Originally Posted by mimms2

Rear-locking action (has pros and cons), horrendous trigger, skinny barrels, ancient (relatively speaking) chambering, loose tolerances (mostly age)... I always found the two-part stock thing hanging off the wrist a bit weird too...

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I think that two piece stock is a bit weird and wonder why Blaser Merkel Sauer and a million lever actions were ever built but I am afraid to say any thing in case I get dragged into this bun fight.

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Originally Posted by bumblefoot

Geez; everyone calm down please :)

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Greetings Bumblefoot,
I'm with you on this one. To my knowledge (I must admit I skipped over some of the posts halfway through the first sentence) no one has suggested that the Lee Enfield is the last word in sporting rifle design. Some of us, perhaps a lot of us, just like to keep one or two around. Few if any of us keep one as a primary hunting rifle, we just like to load for and shoot them. We work around their shortcomings to produce usable loads suitable for the limited hunting and shooting we do with them. Some, like me have a long family association with the rifles and its cartridge. My first shot with any rifle was with my Uncles P14, at a rock, close to Makino Hut on the last Saturday in March 1963. No amount of jawboning will change that.
Regards Grandpamac.

Well done Wallabies!.Go hard ABs!!

Bloody hell; enough of the arguing already..... Shit it's making me think twice about even posting here anymore. 2 posts about having a bit of fun with an old 303 derailed by people starting shit storms... Probably simpler to PM people I think maybe able to help out with a question rather than start threads here.............

Well I like lee enfields and don't care if they have a few eccentricities, at there age they're entitled.
I like the cock on closing system
I like the 2 stage trigger
I like the geometry of bolt handle and trigger
I like the short bolt throw
I like the smell of Youngs 303 cleaner
Etc

@Marty Henry I know of 2 goats that don't like them as of Friday! ;)

Oops; wrong pic

Attachment 178959

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Originally Posted by bumblefoot

Bloody hell; enough of the arguing already..... Shit it's making me think twice about even posting here anymore. 2 posts about having a bit of fun with an old 303 derailed by people starting shit storms... Probably simpler to PM people I think maybe able to help out with a question rather than start threads here.............

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Time for a couple of yellow cards perhaps ?

I would dearly love to own a left hand SMLE ( and yes I know it's no big deal to reach over and use the bolt ).
But I like things to be correct

Doubt there has ever been a true left hand version made but happy to be corrected

There have been a number of wrong handed ones passed on and down to me over the years and I have moved them all on
But it always left me longing for that special one worth keeping

I think it a technically brilliant rifle for what it was intended
I think the 303 is superb for what it was intended and considering when it was conceived and is still a cartridge that could do practically everything most NZ hunters would ever want it for
I can see a whole lot of reason why some of its features that irritate some are taken out of context
For instance a two piece stock is vastly more efficient if you are making a few million of them
Much easier to get a lot more units out of the same amount of materials
Regarding the light barrels. Once again it will be a saving in barrel steel and taken over millions at a time when resources were extremely valuable it all counts

Like I said I would love one in my gun cabinet And would have lots of circumstances where it would be ideal
So I will just have to build a nice 303 single shot or buy a friend's 303 double rifle if I really want to scratch that itch

Attachment 179051

Enfield are awesome.

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Originally Posted by akaroa1

I would dearly love to own a left hand SMLE ( and yes I know it's no big deal to reach over and use the bolt ).
But I like things to be correct

Doubt there has ever been a true left hand version made but happy to be corrected

There have been a number of wrong handed ones passed on and down to me over the years and I have moved them all on
But it always left me longing for that special one worth keeping

I think it a technically brilliant rifle for what it was intended
I think the 303 is superb for what it was intended and considering when it was conceived and is still a cartridge that could do practically everything most NZ hunters would ever want it for
I can see a whole lot of reason why some of its features that irritate some are taken out of context
For instance a two piece stock is vastly more efficient if you are making a few million of them
Much easier to get a lot more units out of the same amount of materials
Regarding the light barrels. Once again it will be a saving in barrel steel and taken over millions at a time when resources were extremely valuable it all counts

Like I said I would love one in my gun cabinet And would have lots of circumstances where it would be ideal
So I will just have to build a nice 303 single shot or buy a friend's 303 double rifle if I really want to scratch that itch

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The Arisaka is two piece stock too, the toe of the shoulder stock is dovetailed on. Also an expedient solution.

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Originally Posted by akaroa1

I would dearly love to own a left hand SMLE ( and yes I know it's no big deal to reach over and use the bolt ).
But I like things to be correct

Doubt there has ever been a true left hand version made but happy to be corrected

There have been a number of wrong handed ones passed on and down to me over the years and I have moved them all on
But it always left me longing for that special one worth keeping

I think it a technically brilliant rifle for what it was intended
I think the 303 is superb for what it was intended and considering when it was conceived and is still a cartridge that could do practically everything most NZ hunters would ever want it for
I can see a whole lot of reason why some of its features that irritate some are taken out of context
For instance a two piece stock is vastly more efficient if you are making a few million of them
Much easier to get a lot more units out of the same amount of materials
Regarding the light barrels. Once again it will be a saving in barrel steel and taken over millions at a time when resources were extremely valuable it all counts

Like I said I would love one in my gun cabinet And would have lots of circumstances where it would be ideal
So I will just have to build a nice 303 single shot or buy a friend's 303 double rifle if I really want to scratch that itch

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Stop it you smooth talking devil. You will get us all into trouble. I have seen just one .303 double rifle and I really don't want to know what they cost. Had an old Martini Enfield but the barrel was shagged and the rest of it beggared. It is now a Martini Krag. It will have to do.
Regards Grandpamac.

@grandpamac It'd be interesting to see what a 303 would do if loaded to higher pressures in a modern action.

Those 2 goats are pretty chilled at the moment while mulling over their choice to walk out in front of the 7.7mm Rimmed Creedmoor....;)

Attachment 179087

Here is one of mine.

"Range pattern MLE" Heavy "H" Lithgow Barrel, single stage target trigger, its an 1MOA shooter produced in 1896...

Interestingly enough the 303 Cartridge was designed by a Swiss man and the Lee Action was American.

Greetings @bumblefoot,
I think that question has been answered. The .303 has a strong case approaching the capacity of the .308. Some have improved its performance in a P 14 up to .308 factory level.
Regards Grandpamac.

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Stop it you smooth talking devil. You will get us all into trouble. I have seen just one .303 double rifle and I really don't want to know what they cost. Had an old Martini Enfield but the barrel was shagged and the rest of it beggared. It is now a Martini Krag. It will have to do.
Regards Grandpamac.

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@grandpamac I have a good friend with a Bonehill 303 double circa 1895 and proofed for 215 grain projectiles
Bores are 9.5/10
Exterior is 9/10
I have handled it often but never shot it
He offered to sell it to me several years ago for 12k
Which I think was a fair price
When I asked to have a really good look at it some time later to dig in to it's value etc he couldn't remember which safe it was in
Just his way of saying he didn't want to sell it and maybe had thought 12k would kill my interest
My problem isn't the money it's that I would want to take it hunting
And it's better that I not own high end collectors pieces
But one day when his guard is down I might mention it again and see where he is at in it

I can't find my images of it but it's barrel widths are identical to a Merkel 20 gauge shotgun
So you could build a very nice hunting 303 double rifle on a good donor 20 gauge

For a single shot
Well a #5 rolling block action would be perfect as they are later production nitro proofed

Failing finding a #5 I have ordered two sets of Field's patent 1877 rifle action castings from the USA and one of them might become a 303 one day

Fucking awesome!

The thin barrel was designed to be supported by the wood in the middle of the forend and towards the nose cap of the two first Rifle Marks.This enabled a thin barrel to be "tamed" as it heated up,as well as insulating the barrel so mirage didnt disrupt the sight picture in addition to keeping flesh away from the hot barrel.

After 15 rounds through my K98 I have problems with mirage,I cant remember ever having problems with mirage from any 303 .

Attachment 179098
Greetings All, Here is my Martini chambered for the .30-40 Krag aka the 30 Purdey Flanged Nitro Express on one of its walkies in the Kaweka's. Light loads are used with in a 140 year old action and it shoots better than some Ruger No 1 rifles. 30 cal target barrel with 1 in 12 inch twist.
Regards Grandpamac.

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Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

Attachment 179051

Enfield are awesome.

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Wow....a couple that old they're mumifed? :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Maxx

Wow....a couple that old they're mumifed? :thumbsup:

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Photo courtesy of the owner. All made in 1955, we're they were put into grease wrap. 2 degreased and are used, 2 still in the grease wrap and will stay that way.

A silly little video of the 303 hunt! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRAkYOWzXuA

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Originally Posted by bumblefoot

A silly little video of the 303 hunt! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRAkYOWzXuA

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Excellent! Well done and thks for sharing. Made me hungry for the bush sitting here in lockdown.

@grandpamac How cool is this? :)

https://www.magnumimports.co.nz/coll...-rifle-303brit

Attachment 180680

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Originally Posted by bumblefoot

@grandpamac How cool is this? :)

https://www.magnumimports.co.nz/coll...-rifle-303brit

Attachment 180680

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@bumblefoot you are a very bad man for drawing my attention to that rifle. The only thing that may save me is that it is a far too pretty rifle to take in the bush. Still good to know that there are still some rifles chambered in .303 Brit. The Winchester 1885 may have been chambered for it during its life, I know that the 1895 and the Remington rolling block were.
Regards Grandpamac.

@grandpamac :D I'd probably need a scope for my eyes though. A plain Jane 4x32 or 4x40 I suppose. I remember thinking when I was younger (and recently!) about having a custom 303 rifle made. Not a flash Harry; just a modern action, new barrel; and everyday hunting style stock.... I don't know why I love the 303 so much! I think it's the heritage and NZ history. I enjoy watching vids like this where they bring the old rifles out to hunt. In this case a 32-40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHf-H3MsVFA

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Originally Posted by bumblefoot

@grandpamac :D I'd probably need a scope for my eyes though. A plain Jane 4x32 or 4x40 I suppose. I remember thinking when I was younger (and recently!) about having a custom 303 rifle made. Not a flash Harry; just a modern action, new barrel; and everyday hunting style stock.... I don't know why I love the 303 so much! I think it's the heritage and NZ history. I enjoy watching vids like this where they bring the old rifles out to hunt. In this case a 32-40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHf-H3MsVFA

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Greetings Again @bumblefoot,
I seem to have developed a strong liking for single shot rifles. Surprisingly there seems to be plenty available well north of a century after they were rendered obsolete as a military rifle. As well as the .303 and .30-40 Krag there are lots of really neat rimmed metric rounds in the 6.5 and 7mm range that would be ideal for all NZ hunting, the 6.5 x 57 R being a good example. I also could probably afford one at least but generally talk myself out of it. Not an uncommon event for those early boomers who heard the depression stories when we were young.
Regards Grandpamac.

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

@bumblefoot you are a very bad man for drawing my attention to that rifle. The only thing that may save me is that it is a far too pretty rifle to take in the bush. Still good to know that there are still some rifles chambered in .303 Brit. The Winchester 1885 may have been chambered for it during its life, I know that the 1895 and the Remington rolling block were.
Regards Grandpamac.

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pretty sure I know where a sadly neglected winchester 303 is...one day may just have to chase that up...there is photo of one in Philip Holdens wild pig book I seem to recall.

@Bublefoot......a 7.62x39mm Bakail can be rechambered........its one of two conversions on my radar to do...the other is same rifle in 223 converted to hi power savage with .224 diameter barrel.

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings Again @bumblefoot,
I seem to have developed a strong liking for single shot rifles. Surprisingly there seems to be plenty available well north of a century after they were rendered obsolete as a military rifle. As well as the .303 and .30-40 Krag there are lots of really neat rimmed metric rounds in the 6.5 and 7mm range that would be ideal for all NZ hunting, the 6.5 x 57 R being a good example. I also could probably afford one at least but generally talk myself out of it. Not an uncommon event for those early boomers who heard the depression stories when we were young.
Regards Grandpamac.

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For some reason Ive got a thing for single shot rifles as well got a 223 and a 22 hornet

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

@Bublefoot......a 7.62x39mm Bakail can be rechambered........its one of two conversions on my radar to do...the other is same rifle in 223 converted to hi power savage with .224 diameter barrel.

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Greetings @Micky Duck,
I detect a case of singleshotitis, a newly described disease the afflicts many Riflemen as they approach their mature years. It is often accompanied by declining interest in the latest whizzo cartridges and kit. Fortunately there is no cure.
Regards Grandpamac.

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Originally Posted by Russian 22.

Wait for a cheap sporter to pop up on trademe and go inspect the barrel. New ones are pretty expensive and usually come from USA.

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Don't Criterion have them in NZ? Around $650-$800??

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings @Micky Duck,
I detect a case of singleshotitis, a newly described disease the afflicts many Riflemen as they approach their mature years. It is often accompanied by declining interest in the latest whizzo cartridges and kit. Fortunately there is no cure.
Regards Grandpamac.

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so this diagnosis may well be why the .45/70 break open has been getting out of cabinet a lot lately....

@Micky Duck There is a 45/70 built on a P14 actin on TM at the moment!