Seeking Advice - New to Hunting

Hi guys,

Myself and my fiance have decided to get out of town for a while, and do some long-term camping. While we are stuck in Auckland for the time being, our ultimate goal will be to move far, far away.

Anyway, I have always wanted to learn to hunt/fish, camp and become self-sufficient out there as much as possible. I have a bow and an air-rifle (I can hear you laughing), but that is all I can really work with at this stage. A gun license sounds like a fantasy in the current environment (a friend said not to bother... there is a 2 year wait-list at least).

Can anyone share their thoughts on how we might approach this? Where should we go? We have 2 (non-hunting) dogs that will be with us, and we are happy to rough-it long-term. Ultimately we will probably get a sweet camper trailer of some sort, but we want to start with the bare minimum before we go fancy. This is going to be a way of life for some time, assuming we enjoy it as much as we think we will. Also, the plan is to slowly migrate south, assuming we will ever be able to get into the South Island again...

Don't get me wrong, we aren't going to be dependent on hunting and fishing to survive, given I still have income from a business I own... but it would be fun to try and make that work.

• Where would you start?
• What would you do if you had no choice but to do this?
• If you needed to maintain some kind of cell reception, how would you do that?
• What gear would you consider 'must-have'? What would you do for comms/navigation?
• What would the minimum effective vehicle/4WD be?

Literally any thoughts or insights will be appreciated.


Cheers,
Mitch

Start small then work your way up. Start shooting a few rabbits. Make sure to learn and practice other skills especially off track navigation.
Nap compass and phone are all you need for navigation. In reach or plb for extra safety.
Get a 22 and a 223. You will be sorted for the vast majority of NZ hunting. Get good with them.

Hey, welcome to the forum.

NO one person will be able to answer all your questions, but a good start is reading through the forum, and watching videos.

The absolute first place you should start with your bow and air rifle (not laughing because both can kill) is learning how to be accurate with each.

You don't want to wound an animal so figure out how to master your weapons.

first thing i shot (rat) air rifle
first deer i shot crossbow.
start off with something small like a 22, learn to shoot and gauge wind/ elevation etc.
from then on things get better but way more expensive

I would start with the camping. Get that sorted, then worry about the hunting.
Air rifles are not allowed on public (DOC) land. Bowhunting is allowed with a permit (which are free), though I think there are minimum draw requirements etc that apply. The air rifle could keep you fed with rabbits, possums etc if you have access to private land.
Maintaining cell reception means only going to areas that have coverage, which rules out a lot of areas if you want constant reception. Some areas you will get reception within a shortish drive, or by walking to the top of a certain ridge, etc if you just need to check messages occasionally.

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Originally Posted by Dusty Fog

firstly i would make sure not to impregnate girlfriend as this has a way of complication a lifestyle
youll catch more fish than animals until getting the hang of hunting
bow is good(crossbow better but new ones cost arm n leg)
kahawai should be running on the west coast as of now(marakopa be good,lots of bush in the background)
learn your tides,day or two after big tides to find crays n paua)might learn a bit about diving if you have no experience

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I think we have had enough of people going camping at Marokopa for a while! :P

Register with the NZDA HUNTS program.

Wow, thanks guys. That was really fast. My feeling has always been that the hunting and fishing community is a bloody good one... cheers guys. I really appreciate it.

Hypothetical question... once it is 'legal' to do so, do you think it is doable to walk and camp from Auckland to Wellington? What route would you take?


Cheers,
Mitch

By the way, all the advice above I am taking on board, and putting together a plan to learn what I need to learn. Also, I have a recurve and a crossbow (I wanted the crossbow for initial hunting and the recurve is for fun/last resort once I am good enough). It definitely cost an arm and a leg! I got a Mission Sub 1.

Thanks again.

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Originally Posted by Mitcho

Wow, thanks guys. That was really fast. My feeling has always been that the hunting and fishing community is a bloody good one... cheers guys. I really appreciate it.

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A great community until some knobhead decides to shoot someone, then we are all serial killers in the media's eye.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dusty Fog

firstly i would make sure not to impregnate girlfriend as this has a way of complication a lifestyle
youll catch more fish than animals until getting the hang of hunting
bow is good(crossbow better but new ones cost arm n leg)
kahawai should be running on the west coast as of now(marakopa be good,lots of bush in the background)
learn your tides,day or two after big tides to find crays n paua)might learn a bit about diving if you have no experience

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crossbow up to 20m. a decent compound bow triple that. owned both in the past and a 70lb compound is damn scary

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Originally Posted by Phil_H

Very first thing I would suggest you need to do - if you intend hunting with and owning a rifle at sometime - is get your firearms application in to the Arms Office. Even if the delay is two years, it isn’t going to be any shorter time the longer you leave it. In fact I would suggest you both get an application in.

Cheers
Phil

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Along with this, try to stagger the two fire arm licience expiry dates. If they both expire at the same time, you won't be able to hold them while both of you are unlicensed.

A small point but one to consider down the track.

From all the reading I have been doing Bay of Plenty seems to be over run with deer.

Realistically go out with binoculars and a notepad. Look for deer and try to stalk into them, them make notes about what worked and didn't work.

Worry about shooting them later.

They are wrong about the gun license though. If you don't apply you won't start the process of rising to the top of the queue of the long list of applications.
May as well start asap.

Hey guys… I was wondering if you could comment on how security fits in to the equation.

If we load up a 4WD with everything we intend to live off, and fit it all out etc., it seems like we would be taking a bit of a risk every time we park up somewhere and wander off into the bush… What can be done to avoid getting our stuff stolen while we are away from the car? Is this even worth worrying about?

We would be pretty screwed if this happened… so just curious about your experiences and thoughts.


Cheers,
Mitch

Maybe one person stay at the vehicle. Alternate turns away.

It is what it is, parking in areas that are very remote reduces the chance of theft by virtue of no one else being there.

You could put a trail camera watching over your truck and have it notify your sat phone, but this isn’t really practical.

If I go anywhere overnight or longer I just take the clapped out corolla for leaving at the road end.
I leave nothing in it and leave it unlocked. That way no one has to break a window to verify there are no coins in the ashtray.

In some ways you just have to accept there is a security risk with a vehicle at a road end and carry on, if one worries too much about it, it either stops you going hunting or ruins your hunt because you worried about the car the whole time.

I realise none of this directly answers your need, it’s more to give some examples to help you think of how you will manage this part of it, ultimately you will need to figure your own methods that work. Which judging by the questions you are asking, you will be able to do.

I started out getting the firearms license, joining the NZDA ,doing the HUNTS course, and going out a couple of times with other people before heading out on my own. There is A LOT to learn, the most important in my opinion being the laws and safety.
Funny enough my first gun was a 7mm08, i only started shooting bunnies later with my second gun a .22. Unless you know people with land that you can regularly go to, it is actually easier to hunt large game on public land. DOC doesn't make it easy to hunt small game in my experience.

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Originally Posted by Mitcho

Hey guys… I was wondering if you could comment on how security fits in to the equation.

If we load up a 4WD with everything we intend to live off, and fit it all out etc., it seems like we would be taking a bit of a risk every time we park up somewhere and wander off into the bush… What can be done to avoid getting our stuff stolen while we are away from the car? Is this even worth worrying about?

We would be pretty screwed if this happened… so just curious about your experiences and thoughts.


Cheers,
Mitch

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Become a regular commenting member on this forum, make acquaintences and then in a couple of years you will have many friendly contacts from one end of NZ to the other that you can ask : Hey, can I leave my truck at your place for a week's hunting"??

Re walking/hunting from Auckland to Wellington, those of us who have done those sorts of expeditions usually spent years doing all the little trips inbetween, getting to know the lie of the land (pre gps and G Earth!!) and then stitched all those trips together in one big long adventure. Usually in a January to May period of the year. Just a written out general route for mum and dad to follow, and off we went. No plb/radio/gps. Just your packs' contents a rifle and a head full of knowledge

Get rid of the crossbow and the recurve - trade them in on a min 65lb draw compound bow. Couple of reasons. Crossbows have a very limited range in terms of the kinetic energy of the bolt. At short range they are very effective killers. Unfortunately at longer ranges they tend to wound more easily than kill. And even more unfortunately because you can pick one up and as a complete novice, use it like a firearm, I.e. point and fire, you learn squat about archery. And novices with crossbows are a recipe for wounded animals. They shoot at stuff because the bolt can get there, not because it can kill when it does. An arrow from a bow has the kinetic energy to penetrate a broadhead well into or through an animal at its most extreme range. Because of the weight of the arrow. As the French found out at the wrong end of English longbows.

The recurve is a lovely bow but will take you much longer to become proficient with as you have to hold the full weight of the bow pull at full draw. 65lb is a very effective weight for a hunting bow. Yes, you can hunt with a 45lb. But its like the difference between hunting with a rimfire and a centrefire.

The compound bow allows you to hold as little as 40% of the full pull weight at full draw length. Gives you time to hold and aim with less strength or fatigue. Also the string accelerates whereas a recurve decreases its shove on the arrow instantly from release.

With a 65lb bow or higher you can kill rabbits effectively with a blunt. Broadheads are far too expensive to waste on rabbits. Instead use a field pile and drill two holes behind the tip, flat or pointed tip, at 90 degrees to each other, one behind the other, and pass a panel pin nail through. Bend it at each end against the hole edge, each end in opposite direction, so that it is locked in place. With both pins bent and trimmed to about 5mm each leg, you get a swastika like pattern. Without the nails the rabbit or possum or wild cat will depart the scene dragging your arrow. With the nails, the full kinetic energy of the arrow is transferred to the target. Instead of penciling thru, you get broken bones and destroyed tissue. I.e. bang-flops.

I hunted and shot an awful lot of rabbits in Foxton hedgerows back in the day. A 55lb bow will do the job but only just. 65lb is much more efficient.

Hunting rabbits in hedgerows and above ground habitats don't bother with long shots. Walk slowly up on them, they will take cover and freeze. Look in the hedge, gorse, grass for the eye. Use your peripheral vision. Most folk will walk right past them. Learn to see the eye and you will shoot a lot of orchard and paddock rabbits.

The skill level you need is to be able to consistently hit a matchbox at 25 paces on the ground. I used to always have my bow in the back of my HQ Holden Station Wagon as I visited rural folk in my work. I silenced many a scoffer when they saw the bow with the match box on the lawn trick. And won a few wagers not to mention hunting rights. To be fair, I practiced daily.

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Originally Posted by Mitcho

....I have a bow and an air-rifle (I can hear you laughing), but that is all I can really work with at this stage. A gun license sounds like a fantasy in the current environment (a friend said not to bother... there is a 2 year wait-list at least). ...

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I have several reasons against using air rifle for your purpose:

1. Air rifles are not maintenance free. Springer air rifles have significant moving parts. Arguable they require more maintenance than rimfire rifles. Pivots and springs are made of steel so they would required to be stored in dry places and if used frequently, oiled accordingly.
2. Over time spring also lose strength and require replacement.
3. Springer air rifles can kill scopes, especially powerful ones you want to use for hunting. In home environment if you break one, you just buy a new one. It can be a problem if your meals depend on it and you are in the middle of nowhere.
4. Accurate and powerful springer air rifles cost about 1200~1500 new. Cheaper air rifles are not consistent. i.e. they will miss.
5. Accurate and powerful springer air rifles are always quite heavy, around 5~5.5 Kg with a scope. In comparison, good Rimfire rifles can be a lot lighter.

Does it really take 2 years to get a firearms license now? That seems crazy.

If it was me I’d be looking at travelling the coast and diving for paua and crayons and setting a longline from a kayak and offering farmers a day or two of labour in return for hunting access they might even let you camp there if you are working there . Tbh I wish I was doing just that.

This is the place for longline resources Kite Fishing Rigs, Beach Fishing Rigs and DIY Fishing Knot and Fishing rig Tutorial

If it was me I’d be looking at travelling the coast and diving for paua and crayons and setting a longline from a kayak and offering farmers a day or two of labour in return for hunting access they might even let you camp there if you are working there . Tbh I wish I was doing just that.

This is the place for longline resources Kite Fishing Rigs, Beach Fishing Rigs and DIY Fishing Knot and Fishing rig Tutorial

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Originally Posted by mimms2

Going to have to disagree. Especially in a SHTF scenario.
A recurve can be re-strung by yourself with no tools. You could even make a catgut or flax-fibre string for it, if need be.
Compounds are damnably heavy, and complicated, can't be worked on without tools/vice etc, and if you shit a cam then what?
65lb would be the max I'd want to shoot. 45 -50 is reasonable. 25lb will kill anything, given the right shot placement.

Tuned crossbows will be launching bolts that are same gn weight as an arrow/broadhead, just usually a few FPS faster, so their range is no less.



1- all things require maintenance.
2- have you ever shot out a spring??
3- you don't need a scope
4- you don't need to buy new, and competent springers can be had for a lot less than that.
5- you don't need a scope.
But yes. They tend to weigh more. But the ammo weighs less. Few thousand pellets vs few thousand .22LR rounds...
Strokes for folks. I wouldn't want to stake my dinner on a slug gun, but if I had to, I could.

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Was he talking SHTF ? didn't notice that. Thought he was talking about a foot journey down the island doing a bit of hunting. And in a SHTF scenario I would put my compound bow against your crossbow any day of the week. A recurve or longbow yes. Not a crossbow. But whatever...

the real answer to the OP is do your own research taking into account the viewpoints you have garnered here. Try a few things and make your mind up for yourself and what suits you in your situation.

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Originally Posted by mimms2

1- all things require maintenance.
2- have you ever shot out a spring??
3- you don't need a scope
4- you don't need to buy new, and competent springers can be had for a lot less than that.
5- you don't need a scope.
But yes. They tend to weigh more. But the ammo weighs less. Few thousand pellets vs few thousand .22LR rounds...
Strokes for folks. I wouldn't want to stake my dinner on a slug gun, but if I had to, I could.

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1. All things do, but the amount vary. My point is that bolt action 22 requires less maintenance than springer.
2. I have not myself, but other people have. Some people suggest as little as 2000 shots, some people say 5000. My current springer has shot around 2000 at the moment. So far so good and fingers crossed. In comparison, one of my semi 22 would have shot 20k rounds by now.
3. You do need a scope. Firstly, top tier air rifles do not come with iron sights: AA TX200 M3， Weihrauch hk97, Diana 54/56. Secondly, reliably shooting the head of rabbit sized animal over 30 meters would require a scope. At least most people do.
4. Cheap spring rifles tend to be less consistent, less reliable, heavy and creepy trigger making it harder to shoot well. But I do agree for present purpose price is not a big factor.
5. You do not need to carry thousands of rounds with you all the time though. For a hunting session 20 rounds is more than enough. but you always carry the gun with its full weight. Hunting with springers have other disadvantages. For example you either have to cock the gun early and let the spring be under pressure, or you cock when you see the game and the cooking sound could spook it, as well as cooking a heavy and powerful gun usually cannot be done with stealth and little movement. And you can usually forget about follow up shots on game that spook easy.

Hi guys,

I just wanted to post a quick reply to say a huge thanks for all of the brilliant replies. Thanks for your time… it means a lot, really. I will read and reread these a dozen times to start filling out my understanding and to orient my learning. Really great stuff.

As a side note… I framed my questions as someone who might be going for a long walk and doing some hunting and fishing, but if I’m honest I am also extremely motivated to prepare myself for a ‘SHTF’ situation. At risk of alienating myself from you guys, I’ll be honest and say I am vehemently against the vaccine, and all of the decisions the government is making in order to control and coerce the NZ people. I’ve done hundreds of hours of research into the science, psychology and politics surrounding this thing… and it is 100% rotten, from the very top of the tree all the way down.

I was calling the conspiracy from a week or two into the first lockdown, but I had a kind of prolonged awakening recently where I realised something serious, huge and sinister might be (probably is) actually going down, and I didn’t want my fiance and I to be useless sitting ducks if it turns out to be true.

So yeah, I’m definitely thinking in terms of SHTF, but I have also always wanted to live this way anyway… it has always been there as a kind of calling (we both grew up in country Australia), so it makes sense to dive in now anyway. Life is too short not to do it, regardless of the circumstances. This shitty situation has just given us the push we needed to get out of our comfort zone and do it.

The good news is we won’t be needing to do the long walk, or not just yet anyway. We managed to get out of Auckland on the weekend (legally)… drive straight to Wellington with our 2 dogs and all our belongings, and are now on a ferry to the South Island. It is surreal to say the least.

I have a shit-load to learn, but have never been more excited. Thanks again, and I will be sure to post regularly to learn as much as I can from you experienced folk.


Cheers!
Mitch