Thread: Semi Auto 22 WMR vs Bolt action 223 for goats

Goat shooting set up backn the 80s, pretty standard equipment, 223 all the way, wasn't wonderfully accuracy wise but great on mobs at close range.

Originally Posted by flock

Goat shooting set up backn the 80s, pretty standard equipment, 223 all the way, wasn't wonderfully accuracy wise but great on mobs at close range.

Attachment 216263

I regret never buying a mini14.

I had 2 but fat lot of good that did me

These 2 were the only goats I've shot and on Damz place over wanganui Barnaul ammo about 150m

Originally Posted by Ben Waimata

I regret never buying a mini14.

My 2 cents I use a 12g semi with buckshot when shooting orchards or inside 30-40m. 223 for the rest seems to work for me. A lever action 30-30 with red dot would be something I'd look at too

That M14 had muzzle setup that stopped upward recoil, was excellent very quick and stable to use, 2 20 round mags on the go.
Bit that drove me nuts and took ages to discover was the ejected shells were hitting the scope. Sight it in and 20 shots later she was drifting off. Headshot a hare from 150 m once, guys with me were blown away, was hard not to crack up, what a bloody fluke.

I used a mini 14 when doing a but of goat culling. My shot per goat went up using it. Prior to that I was using .308 with 130g psp. That stuff was dynamite.

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Originally Posted by country cuts

My 2 cents I use a 12g semi with buckshot when shooting orchards or inside 30-40m. 223 for the rest seems to work for me. A lever action 30-30 with red dot would be something I'd look at too

I shoot goats for meat with a Rossi 357mag LA, 20in. Not the volumes cullers talk about obviously. But 2 things - a 158gn powder coated truncated cone cast bullet leaving the muzzle at around 1450fps to 1600fps nails any goat pretty much with a behind the shoulder or neck shot out to 120 - 150m. Second a red dot sight or scout scope puts the bullet where you want it every time. I used to do it with original buckhorn sights but now I don't see so well. I used to hot-load 38sp cases 'cause 12 would fit in the tube. Did the job fine. Now of course I'm only allowed to put ten in so the only advantage over 357mag cases is if the 38sp are cheaper or more available. If the 38cases are well used you will get some splits. I make up goat loads out of my older ones cause I don't get them all back.

A Rossi Puma 92 can be made super slick to cycle. Just a bit slower to reload than a detached box mag. I reload the ammo with a specific Shotgun powder, around 12 gn. Lot of loads out of a tub. Hawke River bullets from Delta Mike are a cheap volume buy. Cost of primers has pushed per round price up but still cheapest hard hitting ammo out there I suspect. When the goats start running you will be too. With practice you can thumb replacements in the tube on the go. Just don't make the mistake I once made. Filled my pocket with 38sp Pistol target rounds by mistake. I'm sorry to say the ensuing circus was about enough to put one off hunting. I made myself eat every morsel off that carcass remembering every bleat. Use enough gun also means use the right ammo.

I have a Marlin 22 mag semi auto, 223 leaves it for dead .

@Jhon I bought a spring kit for my rossi couple of years back
Had springs and shims etc
There was a small spring I didnt use and I cant remember what it was but the trigger and ejector spring made a massive difference

The original question is now changing after looking at the price of factory ammunition and everyones opinions on the matter, what's everyone think of the .223 vs 7.62? This definitely should have been the question asked initially

Seeing as how versatile the 2 calibers are, it'd be stupid of me to limit its use to goats only, how's much worse is the 30 cals recoil in comparison to the 223? And if the two calibers are chambered in the same make of rifle, are they the same weight empty?

Originally Posted by WaikatoBushman

Seeing as how versatile the 2 calibers are, it'd be stupid of me to limit its use to goats only, how's much worse is the 30 cals recoil in comparison to the 223? And if the two calibers are chambered in the same make of rifle, are they the same weight empty?

With weight- probably not enough difference to notice.

Both calibres have their advantages over the other...223 is flatter shooting and the 7.62x39 is probably a bit harder hitting on bigger / heavier goats. Both should do fine. I had the same choice a number of years back and went the 7.62x39 as there was a chance of pigs which I could knock over with it where the 223 was a little under gunned....But the 223 will probably be more accurate out past 100m.

I wrote an article for the deceased guns and hunting magazine comparing both 7.62x39 and 223 in bolt actions, a Ruger ranch and Howa mini. The x39 is a clear winner in the energy stakes at all practical ranges and it's flat enough shooting out to around 175 -200 yds . Recoil is naturally a bit more but not significant. Accuracy wise there wasn't anything in it using either barnal or Norinco ammo versus Belmont 223 .
It comes down to personal choice and ammunition availability as to which you decide on. Neither is the wrong choice.

Back in the semi auto days I looked into this and decided 7.62x39 was the clear winner, having significantly more energy and a far better ability to knock through lightweight leaves etc when bush hunting. Barnaul had HP and SP options at under 50c per round, it was an easy decision. It's changed now, I have a suspicion that x39 ammo will be less available and no longer low cost in future while cheaper .223 options will remain for a while, which is the reason my old SKK was replaced with a .223, not x39. Ammo cost becomes an issue when hitting large numbers of pest animals, not so much an issue for hunting of course where one shot can return you $1000 of meat.

The old man has a culling business and have grown up culling mobs of goats my whole life with all manner methods from buckshot to 45-70 subsonics.

Culling mobs of animals is a very different skill than general hunting where you are usually only after one or two animals. The first two or three shots you get the opportunity to place optimum shots but after that when the mob is on the move/scattering its pretty much a free for all. You don't have the time to wait for the perfect presentation to get the shot off and are usually trying to pretty much get a bullet into the front half of the animal. Obviously you try your best to hit vitals. After the initial actions all over you have to go do a bit of clean up, a good dog comes in handy. Not pretty but its a reality.

For this reason I've found 7.62x39 to be a better caliber for goats at the range you mostly encounter mobs. I'm often surprised how a larger bodied goat or billy will soak up a .223 hit and keep going. 7.62x39 provides just that little bit of extra oomph that makes all the difference.

In the end there is a balance between ammo price and how many rounds you need to use to get the job done. Obviously skill comes into play as well both in marksmanship and how you ambush mobs and limit their escape and know what they are likely to do when they are in a panic.

Once you start getting out to longer ranges in more open country .308 and other bigger calibers can also have a place. Cost vs reward, if you can cull a small mob from across the valley rather than having to spend time to sneak up closer then its worth the extra cost in ammo.

Howa mini is a good option, they have short bolt throw so can cycle pretty quick. Get a couple of spare 10 shot mags in your pocket too.

As an aside I used to carry a 22 magnum little badger single shot in my pack when doing trap lines, was good for dealing with feral cats. I often encountered small mobs of goats and could actually make a dent by sneaking up and head/ neck shooting a couple then lung shooting a couple more with sub sonics. Again not pretty but effective.