I can get some of these cheap. Would they be OK for chest shots on goats, fallow?
Their web site suggests not for hunting.
Would appreciate comments from past users.
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I can get some of these cheap. Would they be OK for chest shots on goats, fallow?
Their web site suggests not for hunting.
Would appreciate comments from past users.
Yeah mate, will work fine on those animals if you shoot straight. Mind you, i did have a fallow buck last weekend take a 165interlock and not exit on a shoulder shot, still died just fine, but i was surprised no exit, bullet was in the offside shoulder.
Mind you, ive also shot quite a few fallow bucks with the 22 250AI and 55gr softpoints and they died just fine.
Good shot placement beats displacement
No they are match bullets and will not expand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbloke
Looking around lots of conflicting info.
This bloke drilled the tip out and got good results.
Just bought 500 for $150 delivered. Ill only be pushing them at about 2650fps
See the 6 minute mark.
He tested them and some penciled through. (Inconsistant)
The drilled tip. 1/16" drill in 1/4" got great result.
https://youtu.be/tdztWjTl2EU?si=xZUBjQbRzzZhAJos
ok so couple of questions..why a light projectile going so slowly??? 7.62x39mm perhaps???Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbloke
in theory projectiles are like car crashes and having a wank...the faster you go the bigger the mess
thousands of animals have been sucessfully shot and killed using FMJ that didnt expand or tumble..you hit shoulder bones ,destroy locomotion ability and take out lungs at same time.... if the pencil going slow...speed them up...if they too explody,slow them down..works for just about every other projectile on the market..forsure a slight opening of nose cavity can help initiate opening..but jacket construction and speed play just as big of part.
Range is generally short, say less than 180 yards. So 2600 - 2700fps is plenty and its very mild to shoot out of 30.06.
Ive almost run out of the 130gr SPs. These will do me for a long time. Game targeted is, foxes, dogs, goats, sml pigs, fallow.
So that are all light animals.take out shoulders lungs and be fine.faster is better all the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Yeh, it fills the gap (like a 243 might) between my 223 and my other 30.06 loaded with 180gr interlocks that i use when chasing sambar.
Dont think i would use them on a big Red given they are reputed to be a bit unreliable. A 1.5mm drill should fix that tho.
ADI says my current load is going about 2980fps. But i suspect its much closer to 2700fps.
keep an eye out for 130grn speer hp or the speer 125grn TNT First one works awesome at full speed if want maximum damage but works well slower too..as in 7.62x39mm speed..the TNT is as its name suggests..very explody
both arent hard to find and not hugely expensive...and if you ever find taipans..grab them quick..even more explody in 30/06 as in decapitate goats with neck shot.
Yes, i was looking for another 130gr SP. But currently still dear over here. Not a lot under $70 a box. And looking to buy bulk to stock up. These were brought to my attention on sale, so just grabbed them. There is a lot of conflicting info out there. Some love them, some hate them. Hoping they will be reliable. I gather the HP is tiny. I'm confident the 1.5mm drill will fix it. Im not fussy, they just need to work.
This is the new normal over here.
And this shop is generally cheap.
the 135grn HP varminter jumps out at me.....
yeah HOPEFULLY the ywill work out ok for you... I guess if you keep a few other loads on hand in case it turns pear shaped..all is good.probably not a silly idea to have something heavier on hand anyway just incase a big boar walks out...
Big jump in cost tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
I do like the idea, i can carry a couple of 180gr loads.
Different weight bullet but I was told 190gr SMK would work on game. Well that went terribly, super accurate but goes straight through on chest shots. Maybe shot 40-50 animals with them out to 400m and probably 15-20 of them went bad. I have decided there’s no point using a match bullet when there’s hunting bullets that do a much better job.
Nothing walks away from a 190gr Berger
I have some 69gn in .224 to use up in my Ruger Ranch II, 223. Took two big Billy Goats recently at around 65m with head shots. They never took a step. Just dropped. Aimed and hit just in front of the ear. Heads were not pretty to see after.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbloke
Attachment 234005
Jhon,
What velocity?
Did they mushroom?
Well, the plot thickens.
Sierra indicates max velocity these 2500fps. Wonder how thick the jacket is now.
@Oldbloke
A few years ago I posted on here about modification of the Sierra MatchKing in bulk milsurp .308 ammo on the station in NT that I worked at. That was the 175gr, going about 2500fps out of a carbine spec hunting rifle. Can’t find the thread though. Might of been on another forum.
It’s important to remember that the hollow point on these bullets is not a proper hollow point in the sense of the Sierra GameKing HPBT. The MatchKing hollow point is an artefact from the manufacturing process and is very very small, verging on almost closed. This is why it gives very inconsistent results. Sometimes enough animal matter will make it into the hollow point to force open the jacket, whereupon the bullet will violently expand and defragment. Other times the soft tip will be forced shut on impact and the bullet will pass straight through with minimal damage. This is why you are reading such different perspectives.
On the station, the guys made a simple jig for the drill press. The cartridge was placed upright in the jig, centred directly below the drill. A medium file was passed flat over the tip twice to flatten the meplat and give the drill something to sit on. Then the meplat was ever so slightly drilled at low speed. The drill stop was set at ~3mm at a guess, and it would drill very slightly the lead core, not by much at all. The result was a clear, open hollow point.
The results were violently brutal on all game, but it must be remembered that pretty much everything up there was headshot with the exception of running pigs - donkeys, scrub cattle, buffalo, the occasional camel. The bullet would defragment almost completely. On larger pigs, it usually didn’t exit. I was a lot less into bullet construction and the nitty-gritty in those days but I don’t ever remember being worried that I had the wrong bullet. (It’s worth remembering that most large pest ungulates up there were headshot with FMJ.)
On soft skinned game like fallow and goats I have zero doubt that that the modified 175gr projectile would absolutely flatten them, but I would expect it to make a helluva mess.
The 125gr is specifically designed for the .300 Blackout and low / medium velocity. So keeping the speed in the mid-2000s is fine. I would however insist on the tip modification because otherwise you are guaranteed to run into problems. Because you are using a very light skinned jacket with a soft lead core you’re going to get inconsistent results. Sometimes it will defragment almost completely, especially after hitting bone, other times it will probably mushroom quite nicely. Six of 1/2 a dozen of the other. If you leave the tip intact you’re going to get the occasional pass through.
If I was using the modified bullet purely for pest control I would have no issues at all but if I was looking at carcass quality for meat recovery then you’re going to be writing off the front end of the animal most of the time.
Thx for that Flyblown. Great explanation and just the info im after.
Now thinking that perhaps i should sell them.
From memory they are doing around 2600fps. Will check my range book when I get home tomorrow. They made a neat little entry hole as you'd expect. Half the head was missing on the other side, well, I exaggerate but not by much. So not so much mushroom as blow up is my guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbloke
Light pills in 30cal, the seirra prohunter 125 were cheap and are effective if you keep the velosity down round 2500ish, soft load to shoot as well
I would just shoot everything in the base of the neck. Thousands of deer were shot with FMJ 303 by the cullers, and thats where they aimed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhon
Once they arrive i will section one to check lead hardness and the cup thickness. If the cup is very thin AND the core is very soft, e.g. pure lead i will sell them.
I figure that combination will result in very poor terminal performance if i drill them.
I hope to keep them between 2500 and 2800fps.
A few of us have done lots of bullet sections in the past including the Tipped MatchKing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbloke
https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....ections-60712/
Something to consider is that that Tipped MatchKing has proven to be a very effective hunting bullet. The construction of the hollow point and tipped version is the same with the exception of the tip, i.e. the skin and the core are the same.
The definition of “very effective” does of course vary between two distinct groups of shooters, those that want controlled expansion and a definite exit, versus those that want the bullet to expend almost all its energy even if it comes to a dead stop in the animal. I tend to dwell in the second group.
For goats and fallow I am 99.9% certain that if you ever so slightly drill the tips of those bullets you’re going to have a very deadly projectile.
Hi flyblown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyblown
Did drilling them this way have a detrimental effect on accuracy?
I have some Nosler Ballistic Tip in 125 gn I intend to load as a lighter load in 30.06 has anybody used them.
That's all I use on Sika out of my .308. None have complained. Usually find the jacket (and not much else) under the far side skin for a shoulder shot, unless its a direct hit on the bone, then its a grenade and all the vitals have lots of little holes in the them.
great in both .308w and in the 7.62x39mm will be awesome in dirty06 quite a tough rear to the jacket.Quote:
Originally Posted by erniec
Well, the Sierra 125gr MK #2121 arrived today.
I have cut 1 in half (bottom) tested the lead hardness and measured the copper cup thickness. Along with a few other bullets i had sectioned in the past.
When i cut it, it was obvious the copper was very hard. Although i cannot compare that ATM.
Note the lead hardness is about average and cup slightly above average thickness.
It was immediatly obvious that drilling the tip could not happen without filing the tip. And the cavity behind the tip was large so filing the tip off seemed the obvious thing to try. After filing the tip off by about 2.5mm and cleaning it up i ended up with a HP of about 1.3mm and 1gr lighter bullet.
I reckon these will work fine with the tip filed same as i did up to fallow.
Now, just need to find a nice mild load and a jig to make filing them easy and consistant. :)
Oops, forgot to mention. Lead has a Brinell hardness of 4.
Finally remembered to look this up..Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhon
I chronographed 3 rounds at an average of 2743fps then stopped as they were so accurate at 50m I didn't want to waste them lol. Load was 26.5gn of ADI Mulwex 2208. This is the older 2208 still branded with the Mulwex name after ADI bought Mulwex. I use 2004 ADI load data with no issues. I imagine current 2208 would be very close but on you to check.
@Oldbloke
Yep I thought you’d be on the right track if you altered the tips. That bullet is going to open up lethally now.
Interesting that you can do it with just filing. I’m wondering what would be the best method for consistent projectile length without having to pfaff around too much. It’s too long ago for me to remember the nitty gritty but I do remember watching the old fella place the round in the jig, pass the file over the tip a couple of times and then lower the drill press, remove cartridge, repeat. It was a very quick, repeatable and accurate process because the drill stop controlled the amount of tip material removed, and he could do a lot of rounds in an hour. Of course the big difference here is this was with a loaded ammo, and not just the projectile on its own.
A board of correct thickness with carefully drilled hole through it so only the excess but can fit out.place board over it a d file off. Or just use eyetrometer and Bench grinder.
Completed 25. File in a thingamajig. Course file then a couple of strokes with i fine file. Obviously bit slow. Length variation was about 0.3mm. So after checking with vernier 3 or 4 got a couple of additional strokes with fine file.
This is how, and end result selected from random.
End result 0.2mm variation.
Tried grinding and too hard to control resulting in tip groynd at an angle.
Drilling doesnt really work. By the time the flat is big enough i get to the hollow point.
they are more uniform than sierra hpbt are from the factory. and those shoot accurately enough.
Ill weigh them tomorrow and come up with some weights
try dropping them right down in your mini vice till just the excess is poking up...your file will hardly touch your vice jaws but will zip off tip easy.
@Micky Duck
Yes, i will try that.
But currently im thinking that 1" is 25.4mm.
Sooo, get a square lump of 1" steel and drill a 5/16" (0.312") hole through.
File them roughly in the mini vice, last few strokes with fine file bullet in the 5/16" hole with sleel sitting on my steel topped work bench.
Well, i got a pleasant surprise. Weighed 10 of each, selected randomly, original 125 and filed now 124gr.
Have loaded 4 with 43gr AR2208, about 2750fps. 1 for an impact test into longlife milk cartons of water and layers of cardboard. And 3 for an initial group.
