Thread: Smallest calibre riffle allowed on Doc land

How hard can this be? It's clearly stated by DOC online. Shotgun, Rimfire .22 and 22 Hornet are all prohibited other than by special permit. All other centerfires are allowed.

https://www.doc.govt.nz/parks-and-re...it-conditions/

Under excluded list
4.0 The following activities are strictly prohibited:
Hunting during the hours of darkness (half an hour after sunset to half hour before sunrise).
Hunting with spotlights, torches, vehicle headlights, or any other artificial light source.
Hunting with any night vision equipment, thermal imaging, infrared or heat detecting devices.
Attaching a torch or other light source to a firearm.
Hunting with any shotgun, rimfire rifle, 17 or 22 hornet calibre, air rifle, or tracer and incendiary type ammunition


6.0 Only centre fire rifles of calibre .222 Remington or larger may be used for hunting, or crossbows and bows that meet the minimum standard specified by DOC. See Bow and crossbow hunting.

That about covers it for general hunting.

So is a .204ruger bigger or smaller than .222 rem? It burns more powder and most loads give more energy but the bore size is smaller. What about a 300blk, less powder and velocity, don't know about energy

If you can shoot a bird with a 22 Hornet, what stops you from shooting it with a 223?

Originally Posted by Synthetic

If you can shoot a bird with a 22 Hornet, what stops you from shooting it with a 223?

Coz there's less left to eat afterwards

So my 22.250 is ok then phew

and if you talk to ranger....they love bird shooters using a .12ga...much easier to find them with bag full of keruru than the fellas using a .177 air rifle.

its another of the outdated rules.
agree the .204 POSSIBLY on paper beats the .222remington...but its more likely to be loaded with purely varmit projectile so arguably less suitable....fed with a mono projectile...do they even make one in .20calibre??? it could be interesting choice....for wallabies it wouldnt matter a hoot..for deer or pig it could make huge difference,as it does in all the .22 centrefires.

when was the last time you saw DOC ranger while hunting???? when was last time one asked what cartridge you were using????
for myself...Ive never seen one,let alone be asked.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

and if you talk to ranger....they love bird shooters using a .12ga...much easier to find them with bag full of keruru than the fellas using a .177 air rifle.

its another of the outdated rules.
agree the .204 POSSIBLY on paper beats the .222remington...but its more likely to be loaded with purely varmit projectile so arguably less suitable....fed with a mono projectile...do they even make one in .20calibre??? it could be interesting choice....for wallabies it wouldnt matter a hoot..for deer or pig it could make huge difference,as it does in all the .22 centrefires.

when was the last time you saw DOC ranger while hunting???? when was last time one asked what cartridge you were using????
for myself...Ive never seen one,let alone be asked.

Shoot a Keruru with your 270 and he will appear. Know of more than one skid site known as "30-06 skid where a Keruru lost his head.

@Huntfisheat Yup; it's hardly rocket science. Clearly written at #6 on the permit....

nope its NOT clear cut.... .222 remington is a cartridge....so what it bigger or smaller is relative... if regulations said .224 calibre with no less than 23grns of powder capacity...it would be clearcut.... a .204 caibre is out as too skinny.
a .22hornet is out as too small of powder capacity
if a ftlb of say 500ftlb at muzzle was stated it would be clearer still and maybe the hot rodded .204 would squeak in...the hornet would still fail.

the rule was written many years ago and as others have said is now out of date. it was also written long before suppressors were around on more than one in a thousand rifles...

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

nope its NOT clear cut.... .222 remington is a cartridge....so what it bigger or smaller is relative... if regulations said .224 calibre with no less than 23grns of powder capacity...it would be clearcut.... a .204 caibre is out as too skinny.
a .22hornet is out as too small of powder capacity
if a ftlb of say 500ftlb at muzzle was stated it would be clearer still and maybe the hot rodded .204 would squeak in...the hornet would still fail.

the rule was written many years ago and as others have said is now out of date. it was also written long before suppressors were around on more than one in a thousand rifles...

A lot of deer died with the 22 Hornet, if I remember correctly one of greatest forestry hunters, Don Kiddie used one with great results, but then he shot hundreds of deer with the humble 22.

First time I went into Waihaha I took Dads .22 Hornet.
Would've been 16-17 at the time all by myself too.
Didn't get geographically embarrassed either that happened later.

I personally like a little more firepower than minimum as it gives me more shot options.

However the rules aren't exactly clear and simple; does of .222rem calibre or larger mean?

Caliber( bullet diameter): I.E. any .22 (.22cal usually .224 diameter) center-fire apart from Hornet. ( Would make .221fireball legal and I think anyone would agree it's smaller than .222)

Powder capacity: pretty simple if the capacity in cubic mm is smaller than that of a .222rem it's out. (Can't use.300 BLK)

Both: If both capacity and bullet diameter are bigger then that cartridge (calibre) is definitely bigger, however it's not these obvious ones where the debate lies.

Bullet weight: Easy to measure but doesn't help that much, after all it's measuring the projectile and not the cartridge (calibre).

To be properly clear the rules would have to set out a certain diameter projectile of a certain weight at a certain velocity, doesn't matter how you achieve that. They could have multiple combinations so heavy large diameter projectiles are allowed to be slower than small light ones.

IE

Projectiles of .224inch in diameter or larger and weighing at least 50gr with a muzzle velocity of 3000fps or above.
Or
Projectiles of .30inch diameter or larger and weighing at least 120gr with a muzzle velocity of 2300fps or above.
Or
Projectiles of .44inch diameter or larger and weighing at least 250gr with a muzzle velocity of 1600fps or above.

These are just random figures but should give an idea of what I feel would actually make for clear rules.

To be honest the .22 hornet rule is an attempt to make sure you have enough gun.
Plenty deer shot with a .22 but really you wouldn't/shouldn't hunt with one.
I have shot a lot of sheep and the odd cattle beast with a .22 but pretty controlled conditions.
Dad shot a lot of deer and goats with .22 Hornet but he had the deck stacked in his favour.
Goats stuck on a bluff, knew exactly where the deer where coming down on to lucerne paddocks that sort of thing.
And he was confident and practiced with it.

Matt Grant used the .22hp savage for some time.....a crack shot well past the buck fever stage...he loved it for deer but admitted not so good on big stags or boars. the animals havent changed.