Thread: Tahr control update from NZDA

You may not like the WARO and AATH guys but if they loose their business because Tahr numbers take a dive then our chances of getting decent throphy's also takes a dive.

Originally Posted by ZQLewis

You may not like the WARO and AATH guys but if they loose their business because Tahr numbers take a dive then our chances of getting decent throphy's also takes a dive.

Care to explain your logic?

Originally Posted by 257weatherby

Care to explain your logic?

+1

Originally Posted by ZQLewis

You may not like the WARO and AATH guys but if they loose their business because Tahr numbers take a dive then our chances of getting decent throphy's also takes a dive.

I’d like to not lose tahr from NZ - I don’t think we will- but I’d like to lose some rich American or kerosene cowboy ruining my hunting even more. I’ve never been primarily a trophy hunter, but if I’ve got horns on the wall I’ve earned them, as it should be.
Drop the numbers back, lose the cowboys.

Originally Posted by ethos

I’d like to not lose tahr from NZ - I don’t think we will- but I’d like to lose some rich American or kerosene cowboy ruining my hunting even more. I’ve never been primarily a trophy hunter, but if I’ve got horns on the wall I’ve earned them, as it should be.
Drop the numbers back, lose the cowboys.

Overseas hunters are charged a trophy fee by DOC collected by the Safari Park / Hunting guide. The Game Animal Council has sought to have overseas hunters levied to provide an income for GAC, rather than levy NZ hunters. Re 'Kerosene cowboy' It is no longer legal for overseas hunters to shoot from an aerial platform. flying machines are however used for access the same as Kiwi hunters use them. The point being possibly missed is that if these 'pest' animals are generating an income for DOC and for the country as a whole then we are much more likely to maintain a herd. There are now sufficient Tahr on private game estates to provide all the trophies needed by overseas hunters if the feral herd was eliminated. The reason that Tahr are commercially trophy hunted on the DOC estate is that trophy parks outside the exclusion zone can choose the cheaper option of a 'fair chase' animal paying only the DOC fee rather than paying a park inside the zone a trophy fee.
So we should embrace the overseas tourist hunter they are our saviour. How cool if Prince Harry was taken Tahr hunting when he and Megan are here, that would lift the image.
There are 30,000 spare so if the kiwis can't get the job done let the tourists hunters have a crack

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Overseas hunters are charged a trophy fee by DOC collected by the Safari Park / Hunting guide. The Game Animal Council has sought to have overseas hunters levied to provide an income for GAC, rather than levy NZ hunters. Re 'Kerosene cowboy' It is no longer legal for overseas hunters to shoot from an aerial platform. flying machines are however used for access the same as Kiwi hunters use them. The point being possibly missed is that if these 'pest' animals are generating an income for DOC and for the country as a whole then we are much more likely to maintain a herd. There are now sufficient Tahr on private game estates to provide all the trophies needed by overseas hunters if the feral herd was eliminated. The reason that Tahr are commercially trophy hunted on the DOC estate is that trophy parks outside the exclusion zone can choose the cheaper option of a 'fair chase' animal paying only the DOC fee rather than paying a park inside the zone a trophy fee.
So we should embrace the overseas tourist hunter they are our saviour. How cool if Prince Harry was taken Tahr hunting when he and Megan are here, that would lift the image.
There are 30,000 spare so if the kiwis can't get the job done let the tourists hunters have a crack

No they can fuck off.
Paid canned hunts and trophy hunts are “ethically challenged” and create extremely bad press for all hunters.
Secondly as Smiddy says, non deserving shits and giggles cowboys actually get preferential access to tax paying kiwis to our wilderness blocks at present so pull the other one. ��
Lastly tourist trophy hunters “getting the job done” on lowering animal numbers?
Yeah nah.
The herd obviously needs ongoing targeted control and that will involve bombing some nannies and not being precious about just shooting trophy bulls eh.

Originally Posted by ethos

No they can fuck off.
Paid canned hunts and trophy hunts are “ethically challenged” and create extremely bad press for all hunters.
Secondly as Smiddy says, non deserving shits and giggles cowboys actually get preferential access to tax paying kiwis to our wilderness blocks at present so pull the other one. ��
Lastly tourist trophy hunters “getting the job done” on lowering animal numbers?
Yeah nah.
The herd obviously needs ongoing targeted control and that will involve bombing some nannies and not being precious about just shooting trophy bulls eh.

As unpalatable as guided trophy hunting may seem if we look past that initial reaction and 'think' we will see it is our salvation.
Inspite of the best efforts of both domestic and tourist hunters the numbers have gotten out of control.
Unchecked, animals that bare a single young double their populations every three years. So without control there will be 100,000 by 2021

What is a paid canned hunt ? Is that where an animal is shot in a pen ??
Re the comments on preferential access, perhaps not ideal but if you pay you will always be treated preferentially that is the reality of life. Doc will want to focus recreational hunter efforts in areas that need control - at a guess. That is what I would do.
Tahr here are not on their native range. They were introduced for hunting from England where they were kept on a fenced trophy park. In my view if someone is concerned about ethics then that person should consider hunting Thar in the Himalayas and not hunt the animals here in NZ that were introduced from trophy park stock.
Unless there is a value placed on Tahr they are always going to be subject to eradication plans. Foot hunters cannot control them. I know this from a culler who shot 6000 with a 222 and a few thousand more with a 7 mil. I think that qualifies as experience.
The trophy fee was NZD $1000 to DOC - Don't know the current rate.
Where did I state of tourist hunters "getting the job done" ???? I actually typed 'let them have a crack' as it seems we have plenty to spare
What a great thing if 5000 overseas hunters rocked up and shot a bull and nanny each. $30,000000

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

As unpalatable as guided trophy hunting may seem if we look past that initial reaction and 'think' we will see it is our salvation.
Inspite of the best efforts of both domestic and tourist hunters the numbers have gotten out of control.
Unchecked, animals that bare a single young double their populations every three years. So without control there will be 100,000 by 2021

What is a paid canned hunt ? Is that where an animal is shot in a pen ??
Re the comments on preferential access, perhaps not ideal but if you pay you will always be treated preferentially that is the reality of life. Doc will want to focus recreational hunter efforts in areas that need control - at a guess. That is what I would do.
Tahr here are not on their native range. They were introduced for hunting from England where they were kept on a fenced trophy park. In my view if someone is concerned about ethics then that person should consider hunting Thar in the Himalayas and not hunt the animals here in NZ that were introduced from trophy park stock.
Unless there is a value placed on Tahr they are always going to be subject to eradication plans. Foot hunters cannot control them. I know this from a culler who shot 6000 with a 222 and a few thousand more with a 7 mil. I think that qualifies as experience.
The trophy fee was NZD $1000 to DOC - Don't know the current rate.
Where did I state of tourist hunters "getting the job done" ???? I actually typed 'let them have a crack' as it seems we have plenty to spare
What a great thing if 5000 overseas hunters rocked up and shot a bull and nanny each. $30,000000

You smoking the Jazz tobacco? Tahr not in there native range? You don’t say. Paying gets you preferential treatment is the reality?wasnt meant to be like that on public land until the Nats conservation for profit. Lets get 5000 tourists to make it worse? Even if the nanny’s and bulls went for $1000 too, that’s 10 mill not 30 and it’s fantasy. Your appreciation of reality is a tad off.

Plus , they can still fuck off id rather have an animal free wilderness hunt than invest time and money getting in to the wilds and be buzzed by fuckwits with no appreciation of where they are.

Originally Posted by ethos

You smoking the Jazz tobacco? Tahr not in there native range? You don’t say. Paying gets you preferential treatment is the reality?wasnt meant to be like that on public land until the Nats conservation for profit. Lets get 5000 tourists to make it worse? Even if the nanny’s and bulls went for $1000 too, that’s 10 mill not 30 and it’s fantasy. Your appreciation of reality is a tad off.

Plus , they can still fuck off id rather have an animal free wilderness hunt than invest time and money getting in to the wilds and be buzzed by fuckwits with no appreciation of where they are.

Ethos, the reality of Tahr in NZ is that they are regarded as a pest. You may wish and desire wonderful wilderness hunting adventures with mature bulls looking down at you from every lofty crag... But when you wake up and open your eyes you will hopefully see that this dream is not reality, it may be your dream but it is not the dream or reality for the general public and DOC. They don't have a reason to want Tahr here. But if those Tahr are generating income for the country then that is a different story. I would like you to please read this next sentence properly and understand it ' Reality is DOC and the public don't want our great walks tracks and huts clogged with fee paying tourists and their walk guides either, but because they generate income they are welcomed.' Have you ever hunted overseas ? When you do you pay for a guide, this keeps the locals safe and the tourist safe. You might be interested to find out about hunting guide area concessions in North America.
When I hunt on public land here I always think Wow this is fantastic, what a lucky guy I am. I am grateful for what we have, I don't consider it my right. There might be a group of trampers on the track singing the theme to 'The sound of Music' and ruining my wilderness experience, but as a hunter - a minority use group I have to accept this as my reality.
I like to think my math is of at least an average standard. A bull Tahr is worth NZD$6000 as a trophy fee. Some operators will charge USD $6000. Throw the nanny in, a brace of Tahr for $6000 the DOC fee may be inclusive or added on.
The overseas hunters who come here are no more 'f...w...ts' as you describe them than Kiwis. For the most part they are hard working tradies and self employed guys out of the US who save up for an overseas hunt. A big attraction is a mountain fly-in, in a helicopter. If you want them all gone that is fine, we take them away and there will be no economic reason to have Tahr here.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Overseas hunters are charged a trophy fee by DOC collected by the Safari Park / Hunting guide. The Game Animal Council has sought to have overseas hunters levied to provide an income for GAC, rather than levy NZ hunters. Re 'Kerosene cowboy' It is no longer legal for overseas hunters to shoot from an aerial platform. flying machines are however used for access the same as Kiwi hunters use them. The point being possibly missed is that if these 'pest' animals are generating an income for DOC and for the country as a whole then we are much more likely to maintain a herd. There are now sufficient Tahr on private game estates to provide all the trophies needed by overseas hunters if the feral herd was eliminated. The reason that Tahr are commercially trophy hunted on the DOC estate is that trophy parks outside the exclusion zone can choose the cheaper option of a 'fair chase' animal paying only the DOC fee rather than paying a park inside the zone a trophy fee.
So we should embrace the overseas tourist hunter they are our saviour. How cool if Prince Harry was taken Tahr hunting when he and Megan are here, that would lift the image.
There are 30,000 spare so if the kiwis can't get the job done let the tourists hunters have a crack

Just how much of that fee makes it to DoC? Do you actually reckon it's an income to them? If they charge like the Americans do for an out of state hunter I would believe you but seriously I would think it accounts to sweet FA.


If prince Harry shot one and increased publicity then more land would be locked up for paying shooters only and that is not what this country is about. Take a look at his homeland hunting it is expensive

Originally Posted by gonebush

Take a look at his homeland hunting it is expensive

If only he hadn't gone hunting that one time

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Overseas hunters are charged a trophy fee by DOC collected by the Safari Park / Hunting guide.
How cool if Prince Harry was taken Tahr hunting when he and Megan are here, that would lift the image.
There are 30,000 spare so if the kiwis can't get the job done let the tourists hunters have a crack

I believe Harry has his trophy.....and by now I’d think mounted.

On a more serious note I don’t like the way DOC in their “wisdom” arbitrarily chop off large chunks of PUBLIC land under the no fly, wilderness area designation which vastly restricts the access for foot hunters - most of us don’t have the time or physical attributes for a 2-3 day walk in. A ride into the back country is a great experience. I had it explained to me that DOC did not choppers flying parties in/out because it disturbs the pristine environment. Then they complain that animal (“pest”) numbers are too high, and fly around in choppers on SAD missions. Or allow selected access for AATH. Wtf ?
Btw I’m all for tourist hunters paying a decent fee to access our herds ...and that money should go back into maintaining the herds & the environment

Originally Posted by chainsaw

I believe Harry has his trophy.....and by now I’d think mounted.

On a more serious note I don’t like the way DOC in their “wisdom” arbitrarily chop off large chunks of PUBLIC land under the no fly, wilderness area designation which vastly restricts the access for foot hunters - most of us don’t have the time or physical attributes for a 2-3 day walk in. A ride into the back country is a great experience. I had it explained to me that DOC did not choppers flying parties in/out because it disturbs the pristine environment. Then they complain that animal (“pest”) numbers are too high, and fly around in choppers on SAD missions. Or allow selected access for AATH. Wtf ?
Btw I’m all for tourist hunters paying a decent fee to access our herds ...and that money should go back into maintaining the herds & the environment

Might be nice if a bigger proportion of that $14k trophy went in to management of public resource instead of someone’s back pocket eh, while taxpayers pick up the tab for extra animal control (freeloading)
I’m not sure where AATH nanny culls feature in the above stats - part of the DoC cull stats or the 1000 guided animals taken.

Originally Posted by ethos

Might be nice if a bigger proportion of that $14k trophy went in to management of public resource instead of someone’s back pocket eh, while taxpayers pick up the tab for extra animal control (freeloading)
I’m not sure where AATH nanny culls feature in the above stats - part of the DoC cull stats or the 1000 guided animals taken.

Don't worry its not NZD$14,000 for a trophy bull these days. If it was imagine the gold rush. In the 90's it was $10,000 but trophy prices have come down and flying machine rates have gone up.

Originally Posted by chainsaw

I believe Harry has his trophy.....and by now I’d think mounted.

On a more serious note I don’t like the way DOC in their “wisdom” arbitrarily chop off large chunks of PUBLIC land under the no fly, wilderness area designation which vastly restricts the access for foot hunters - most of us don’t have the time or physical attributes for a 2-3 day walk in. A ride into the back country is a great experience. I had it explained to me that DOC did not choppers flying parties in/out because it disturbs the pristine environment. Then they complain that animal (“pest”) numbers are too high, and fly around in choppers on SAD missions. Or allow selected access for AATH. Wtf ?
Btw I’m all for tourist hunters paying a decent fee to access our herds ...and that money should go back into maintaining the herds & the environment

Yes a 'full body mount' so I've heard.