Thread: Tahr Update from Doc

Originally Posted by chainsaw

The experts who did the Tahr count admit that the “35,000” is an estimate only & has a large scope for over or under estimation. The real number might be 20,000

I bet they never over estimate/exaggerate the 1080 by-kill figures...

I just came across this article from SCI.
https://safariclub.org/new-zealand-t...e%20newsletter

Originally Posted by Lucky

Mr Reddiex Tahr update is full of numbers that looks like there is some science behind it , where the hell do those numbers come from , and they are going to let recreational hunters know where to find animals after the Cull , I call Bullshit to all of it !

Another interesting thing , try and find a map on the DOC site that shows you the boundary's of Mt Cook and Westland National Parks .

There was a series of areas set up for a study in the 90's which have had sporadic measuring of the tussock heights over the years. Its not particularly scientific and hasn't had much in the way of analysis vs density numbers or external control samples. It does have some relevance though, it shows an approximately 10% decrease in overall tussock height in the period from 1990 - 2010 vs areas without tahr grazing. Hardly drastic and worrying numbers. the decrease is linear following the non linear increase in tahr numbers showing that tussocks only deteriorate with growing populations of tahr, and also show a level of resilience to grazing pressure(logic dictates decreases in overall height should follow the non linear growth in tahr numbers if no resilience to grazing pressure is present. a 30% reduction in numbers with work to stabilize those numbers should return a flattening of this degradation of tussock heights.

They still haven't got a single piece of data on anything other than tussock, which is laughable given the edicts required in the HTCP

@Nick-D , me and a couple mates went into Carneys Creeks up the Havelock in 1989 , supposedly the first to hunt it after it was closed by DOC for sometime while they conducted a Tahr survey , can’t remember how long it was closed for hunting or what they were actually recording , but there was still bugger all Tahr in there even after a spell of no pressure .

Originally Posted by Lucky

@Nick-D , me and a couple mates went into Carneys Creeks up the Havelock in 1989 , supposedly the first to hunt it after it was closed by DOC for sometime while they conducted a Tahr survey , can’t remember how long it was closed for hunting or what they were actually recording , but there was still bugger all Tahr in there even after a spell of no pressure .

That duplicates my one experience in the same area around that time me, very disappointed I was to say the least.

I went to see my local Labour MP two weeks ago to ask what he thinks about the cull and to express my disgust at the lack of consultation. He wasn’t available (as I expected), but a very nice lady told me to leave the issue with me and guaranteed that I would get a response. I followed up with an email and got a reply saying that it was nothing to do with my MP and that my email had been forwarded to the “honourable” Sage. I replied that she is the problem and that my query was to establish what my MP’s position was and that my vote was contingent on his stance.

So far crickets. My view of politicians was already low and now it’s as low as a snake’s armpit in a wheel rut. I’m emailing next week to say that my vote is gone as I’m appalled by this cull and the fact that it is being directed by an unelected minister with no mandate.

I’m a reasonable, easy going bloke, but this has got my goat. Pack of cnuts!

Well our only hope is to change the Govt
Party vote ACT My whole family is and all my hunting mates and their families. . That fucken Sage May she burn eternally in the fires of damnation . Toxic bitch

So I replied to the email from Ben Reddiex and received the following response a couple of days ago:


Thank you for your email regarding the tahr control programme. The email update you received was sent to all public conservation land hunting permit holders to provide context on the tahr programme. I note that your email raises concerns about research and monitoring and a review of the Himalayan Thar Control Plan (HTCP) 1993. http://https://www.doc.govt.nz/about...rol-plan-1993/



DOC is currently working with Ngāi Tahu, researchers and stakeholders to establish an integrated research and monitoring programme which will consider research required for tahr management in New Zealand. I anticipate that this programme will inform our advice to the Minister on the appropriateness of commencing a review of the HTCP 1993.


For more information on tahr population monitoring and research, please visit DOC’s website (the Himalayan tahr control operations page has been linked). http://https://www.doc.govt.nz/parks...ol-operations/



So certainly no commitment to review the 1993 plan...........I guess we can all draw our own conclusions on that?

Originally Posted by ex-NZFS

Well our only hope is to change the Govt
Party vote ACT My whole family is and all my hunting mates and their families. . That fucken Sage May she burn eternally in the fires of damnation . Toxic bitch

Just a reminder , even if the Nats don't win this year, a seat for Act is a seat the useless Green list MPs like Sage can't have.

Fyi a reply from Sages office:

Tēnā koe



Thank you for your letter regarding the control of Himalayan tahr in New Zealand.

While I acknowledge your views I do want to take this opportunity to explain why it is important to control the number of tahr within New Zealand.

Himalayan tahr (tahr) were introduced to New Zealand in the early 1900s for recreational and hunting interests. They are native to the central Himalayan ranges in India and Nepal. With no natural predators in New Zealand, tahr successfully established themselves over much of the central Southern Alps between the Rakaia and Whitcombe rivers (in the north) and the Hunter and Haast rivers (in the south). They can be found on public conservation, private and Crown pastoral lease land.

Tahr are large, herbivorous goat-like animals that feed primarily on alpine tussock grasslands and sub-alpine shrublands. As social animals which group together, tahr are recognised to have had widespread impact on native vegetation in alpine and sub-alpine areas, so control of their numbers is ecologically important.

New Zealand alpine ecosystems evolved without mammalian herbivores, such as tahr. Consequently, many alpine plants have no defence mechanisms, such as toxins or spines, to discourage tahr from eating them. Some plant species, forming part of the tahr diet, are ranked as Threatened or At Risk by the New Zealand Threat Classification System. Large groups of tahr can transform tall tussocks and sub-alpine shrublands to grassy turf or bare ground.



Management of tahr

The management of tahr is governed by a statutory plan, the Himalayan Thar Control Plan 1993, prepared under the Wild Animal Control Act 1977.A key element of the plan is that it sets a maximum population of 10,000 tahr across all land tenures in the tahr feral range. Neither I nor the Department of Conservation have any plans to eradicate tahr across tahr’s feral range. The Department is taking a phased approach to meet the Plan’s objectives. Tahr control is urgent. Without control, the tahr population is at risk of increasing further, undoing the good progress achieved last year.



Population estimates

The department estimates, in autumn 2019, there were approximately 34,500 tahr on public conservation land alone (following three summer seasons of tahr population monitoring). Approximately 11,000 tahr were controlled between July and November 2019 by the department, commercial hunters, and contractors. The population will have since increased due to the intervening breeding season.

Reports of large populations of tahr on private and Crown leasehold land have also been received by the department. Later this year the department will work with Land Information New Zealand (LINZ) to survey tahr populations on Crown pastoral lease land.



The Tahr Control Operational Plan 2020/21

The department’s control work will focus on:

· control outside of the tahr feral range to stop expansion of the geographical range of tahr

· controlling tahr in Aoraki/Mount Cook and Westland/Tai Poutini national parks to the lowest practicable densities to protect and preserve these special places as safe havens for indigenous plants and wildlife.

· controlling high densities of female and juvenile tahr across the tahr feral range to reduce tahr impacts and population spread.

Other work in the tahr programme includes:

· establishing the status and size of tahr populations off public conservation land

· working with Ngāi Tahu to further implement the Treaty partnership in relation to tahr management at a governance level.

· working with Ngāi Tahu, tahr researchers and stakeholders to develop an integrated research and monitoring programme.

The High Court upheld one aspect of the New Zealand Tahr Foundation’s (NZTF) judicial review proceedings. The Court instructed the department to consult further with NZTF and other stakeholders and said the department could undertake half of its proposed control (that is, 125 hours of the planned 250 hours) as it saw fit while the consultation is completed. At this stage, it is too early to say how many tahr will be removed during the scheduled 125 hours of control.

Consultation

The department advises me that it holds two to three Tahr Plan Implementation Liaison Group (TPILG) meetings annually to discuss issues surrounding its implementation of the Plan. In the last two years, the department has engaged individually with stakeholders and the full TPILG during the development of its annual Tahr Control Operational Plan.

Throughout the year, representatives of the department also attend a range of hunter meetings throughout New Zealand.

Impact of the Department’s control work

There are still thousands of tahr available for hunters over thousands of hectares on and off public conservation land. The two national parks represent just 26% of the public conservation land in the tahr range. Tahr also occur on Crown pastoral lease and private land.

The department will also prioritise leaving tahr for recreational hunters in easy to access hunting areas.

In terms of mature bull tahr, I have been advised the department will not target bull tahr outside of the national parks in the Tahr Control Operational Plan 2020/21. There is 425,000 hectares of public conservation land outside of the national parks where bull tahr can be hunted. During its control operations, the department maps the locations where bull tahr are spotted outside of the national parks. This information can be found on the department’s website.

Based on returns provided to the department by concessionaires, the majority of commercial trophy tahr hunting occurs on private and Crown pastoral lease land. The department’s sole focus will be on public conservation land, particularly the national parks.

With New Zealand’s borders remaining closed, there will be limited commercial trophy hunting. The department will be the major form of tahr control during this period.

Where practical, the department advises me that it will explore opportunities to contract professional ground hunters to carry out official control to help support the long-term viability of their businesses.

Helicopter-borne hunting activities have been carried out for a long time in New Zealand. The department’s hunters and contractors are trained and experienced professionals - and like all hunters (ground and aerial), they must first clearly identify their target and ensure safety.

Thank you again for your letter. I hope that the above information and the attached fact sheet respond to the issues you raised.



Nāku noa, nā



Hon. Eugenie Sage

Minister of Conservation

Note the use of professional ground hunters which are to be used by Doc to help eradicate bulls from the scrub in westland that have become wise to the noise of helicopters.
This is disguised as a helping out the guides that are short of work due to covid impacts on their business

Also note the department will prioritise leaving tahr for recreational hunters in easy accessible areas despite the fact the cull has already obliterated these areas.
Areas such as the Ben Ohau in behind Twizel were the the first to get smashed to bits not once but 3 times since 2018. I was sent a video from a farmer from Twizel, of the chopper back in there shooting this easy country yet again last week.
An area with prolific vegetation, easy hunting access and controlled numbers living sustainably with this environment

She is a lying piece of shit. There is video out there of her stating she wants to exterminate them.

Tahr are large, herbivorous goat-like animals that feed primarily on alpine tussock grasslands and sub-alpine shrublands. As social animals which group together, tahr are recognised to have had widespread impact on native vegetation in alpine and sub-alpine areas, so control of their numbers is ecologically important.

Where is the evidence of widespread impact on native vegetation? I call bs on that one.
And bs on this as well

New Zealand alpine ecosystems evolved without mammalian herbivores, such as tahr. Consequently, many alpine plants have no defence mechanisms, such as toxins or spines, to discourage tahr from eating them. Some plant species, forming part of the tahr diet, are ranked as Threatened or At Risk by the New Zealand Threat Classification System. Large groups of tahr can transform tall tussocks and sub-alpine shrublands to grassy turf or bare ground.

Show me evidence that tahr have transformed tall tussocks and sub-alpine shrublands to grassy turf or bare ground. Oh wait, the kicker there is "can". nothing to say they "have".

Bullshit to her letter, she is being deliberately misleading and is misleading the public as well with her lies.

Originally Posted by yogi

Note the use of professional ground hunters which are to be used by Doc to help eradicate bulls from the scrub in westland that have become wise to the noise of helicopters.
This is disguised as a helping out the guides that are short of work due to covid impacts on their business

Also note the department will prioritise leaving tahr for recreational hunters in easy accessible areas despite the fact the cull has already obliterated these areas.
Areas such as the Ben Ohau in behind Twizel were the the first to get smashed to bits not once but 3 times since 2018. I was sent a video from a farmer from Twizel, of the chopper back in there shooting this easy country yet again last week.
An area with prolific vegetation, easy hunting access and controlled numbers living sustainably with this environment

@yogi ,Have you followed up with DoC seeking an explanation as to why they were apparently conducting control in an area that was outside the criteria they claimed to be working to?

"Consequently, many alpine plants have no defence mechanisms, such as toxins or spines, to discourage tahr from eating them"

Clearly the honourable member has never heard of speer grass or matagouri.
To fill in the gaps in her knowledge she should have said species shoved up her arse.

Originally Posted by Maxx

@yogi ,Have you followed up with DoC seeking an explanation as to why they were apparently conducting control in an area that was outside the criteria they claimed to be working to?

Not yet as i only received the reply to my letter yesterday, which was sent to PM Ardern and it was forwarded to Sage for comment.