tell me about Wapiti

I've been seeing crop damage on the farm here for months, yesterday I found a monster deer. A big shaggy beast looked to be taller than me. It was sitting in the sun against the base of a rock, the compressed grass from it's body was about 1.5m long. I know very little about deer, but this thing was huge, and as there are a few wapiti farms not too far away I suspect this thing could be a feral (ex-farm or escapee) wapiti. No ear tags or marks I could see. Any other deer get this big? It was amongst some of my young trees but there seems to be very little damage to the trees, mostly it seems to have been eating grass.

I didn't get a good look at it, what are the defining characteristics I need to look for? If it is a wapiti, is it good eating?

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Originally Posted by Ben Waimata

I've been seeing crop damage on the farm here for months, yesterday I found a monster deer. A big shaggy beast looked to be taller than me. It was sitting in the sun against the base of a rock, the compressed grass from it's body was about 1.5m long. I know very little about deer, but this thing was huge, and as there are a few wapiti farms not too far away I suspect this thing could be a feral (ex-farm or escapee) wapiti. No ear tags or marks I could see. Any other deer get this big? It was amongst some of my young trees but there seems to be very little damage to the trees, mostly it seems to have been eating grass.

I didn't get a good look at it, what are the defining characteristics I need to look for? If it is a wapiti, is it good eating?

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I farm Waps and Elk. If it is a Bull it will have antlers in velvet now. If it is a cow it could easily weigh 260 - 280 kg live weight which is bigger than any feral Red stag that you are likely to see. Shaggy - well it's winter coat will be shedding off. Waps have an under-down that reds don't have this binds the coat and makes it come off in clumps. It will have a Nait RFID button ear tag so do not shoot it.Attachment 97492

rump patch on waps will be up over the bum...reds not so much.... waps more brown than red. and yes they taste great and the amount of meat is mind blowing. you will see a big plastic tag same as in cattle but as for a nait button....not so much...if its on the deck and you THEN discover an earing of some discription....whip out pocket knife and get rid of it quick smart....its on land you are legally allowed to hunt....not identifiable as belonging to someone else,so in my eyes its fair game.
let me put it to you another way...if you saw a black pig in hay paddock would you shoot it???? but the neighbours have black pigs too.....yeah nah its fair game.
what if one of the goats eating your trees had a plastic tag????

@Moa Hunter. How do you differentiate between "waps" and "elk". I thought it was a different name (Indigenous vs non) for the same animal?

So if your dog escapes and run to the nearby neighbourg , is it alright for him to shoot it?

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Originally Posted by Friwi

So if your dog escapes and run to the nearby neighbourg , is it alright for him to shoot it?

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Yeap

if its worrying stock yes it is....... and a dog is a hell of a lot different to a deer.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

if its worrying stock yes it is....... and a dog is a hell of a lot different to a deer.

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Doesn't have to be worrying stock, it has the ability to worry stock so you have the right to use your own discretion

the neighbours jersey bull has ability to impregnate all your fancy heifers too....but it might be better idea to grab the lads and some bikes to round it up before reaching for the mighty .27 nosler........if you do go that way make sure to post photos of projectiles terminal preformance LOL.

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Originally Posted by Shearer

@Moa Hunter. How do you differentiate between "waps" and "elk". I thought it was a different name (Indigenous vs non) for the same animal?

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Interested as well.
I seem to remember Wapiti was Shawnee for white deer.
I always thought they were one and the same animal.

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Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

Doesn't have to be worrying stock, it has the ability to worry stock so you have the right to use your own discretion

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Ouch, guess that's the letter of the law same as if the dog bite someone

Need a picture please.

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Originally Posted by Shearer

@Moa Hunter. How do you differentiate between "waps" and "elk". I thought it was a different name (Indigenous vs non) for the same animal?

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Hey @Shearer wapiti is the Indian name which means literary white deer. Elk is the name given to them by settlers which is actually wrong as in Scandinavia country's where the word comes from this is a Moose.

As Sideshow mentions....here's an extract from Wikipedia.

Early European explorers in North America, who were familiar with the smaller red deer of Europe, thought that the larger North American animal resembled a moose, and consequently gave it the name elk, which is the common European name for moose. The word elk is related to the Latin alces, Old Norse elgr, Scandinavian elg/älg and German Elch, all of which refer to the animal known in North America as the moose.[9]

The name wapiti is from the Shawnee and Cree word waapiti, meaning "white rump".[10] This name is used in particular for the Asian subspecies (Altai wapiti, Tian Shan wapiti, Manchurian wapiti and Alashan wapiti), because in Eurasia the name elk continues to be used for the moose.

Wapiti is also the preferred name for the species in New Zealand.

A farmer I knew about 20 years ago had a deer hanging around on the outside of his deer block. He rang MAF (now MPI) and they said legally he could shoot it, but if he was able to identify the owner he had to give them the option of collecting the carcass. He did, and he did, but owner said keep it. Turned out they lost a couple when they tried grazing them behind a breakfence outside their deer fenced area when feed got short.

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

In NZ deer farming Wapiti usually refers to animals which originated from Fiordland Wapiti. Elk refers to lines which originate from animals, semen or embryos imported from North America for farming.

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Yes this answer is correct. Because there were Pure bred animals imported into NZ from Canada in the 1980's and early 90's and also wild captured animals out of Fiordland ( non of which were pure but all had some Red deer blood ) a way was needed to differentiate between the two. Using the common Canadian name Elk for the imported animals.Attachment 97513Attachment 97514 The trophy animal is the result of a cross between an imported Elk and a non pure live captured Fiordland Wap cow. The other photo shows a Wapiti / Elk bull in velvet and an Eastern Red stag. The Easterns get a lot bigger than our wild reds that are from Western European subspecies. An Eastern stag will commonly pull the scales down to 300 to 350 kg

Attachment 97516

Apparently they work as a substitute horse as well.

I have made expeditions to the Wapiti blocks twice. On the first I got burned nearly to death, and on the second drowned nearly to death. Had that have happened at the same time it would have been more convenient.
I had only moments to record this animal, and scratched it out with a hurried pencil before it disappeared. In vague hopes of having this animal identified, difficult because the vague drawing I was able to do under difficult circumstances, I posted this to the NZ Wapiti foundation. After examining this evidence, they pronounced this creature to be a Red Deer, with some wapiti blood, although they could not tell me how much, although I pressed them hard. Plainly wapiti are different to what I believed.

https://i.imgur.com/W2DtgjE.jpg

After some initial misgivings and considerable thought on the matter, I sent them also the following image, which I managed to get after wrestling this creature to the ground and then staring him in the eyes until he froze. I hypothesise that Wapiti have a defense mechanism where they lie still and hope you'll go away. I am hoping they can tell me how much red deer DNA are in this wapiti -

https://i.imgur.com/pvnUUwe.jpg

They havn't replied yet. So after taking another sample of Wapiti, I endeavoured to examine the creature myself and come to my own conclusions. Here I am trying to see how much red deer DNA is in this Wapiti -

https://i.imgur.com/yf3wuZ4.jpg

Here I am looking for a Wapiti everywhere -

https://i.imgur.com/m76ZoUZ.jpg

At last! I thought I got one, but I have sent this photo off to Canada, because upon reflection, it seems its actually some kind of Fiordland moose.

https://i.imgur.com/y3awyxf.jpg

Here I discovered extensive browsing damage and erosion in the Fiordland rainforest, caused undoubtedly by Wapiti.

https://i.imgur.com/6eLNiPZ.jpg

After looking around everywhere again -

https://i.imgur.com/VqlVpzm.jpg

I finally got a shot at a good wapiti -

https://i.imgur.com/4cjyCf9.jpg

In here. Plainly you can see that wapiti characteristics are mistakable, note the line of the beak, which I believe is used teh same way as octopuses do, ie for eating trees and such:

https://i.imgur.com/SXozo5G.jpg

Here he is just before I shot him. You can observe that there is so much red deer DNA in this wapiti that it would be doubtful if it could survive in the wild.

https://i.imgur.com/G6YMVoL.jpg?2

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Originally Posted by Max Headroom

Attachment 97516

Apparently they work as a substitute horse as well.

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Looks like a good way to loose an eye.

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Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

Doesn't have to be worrying stock, it has the ability to worry stock so you have the right to use your own discretion

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Sure, use your discretion. So... is it worth it??

Press the trigger and risk your neighbours hating your guts (unless you keep it quiet), they'll not care if they see something suspicious going up your drive way when you are on away, etc. Never mind being as able to use their "discretion" on your dog come the opportunity.

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Originally Posted by Carlsen Highway

Here I discovered extensive browsing damage and erosion in the Fiordland rainforest, caused undoubtedly by Wapiti.

https://i.imgur.com/6eLNiPZ.jpg

After looking around everywhere again -

https://i.imgur.com/VqlVpzm.jpg

I finally got a shot at a good wapiti -

https://i.imgur.com/4cjyCf9.jpg

In here. Plainly you can see that wapiti characteristics are mistakable, note the line of the beak, which I believe is used teh same way as octopuses do, ie for eating trees and such:

https://i.imgur.com/SXozo5G.jpg

Here he is just before I shot him. You can observe that there is so much red deer DNA in this wapiti that it would be doubtful if it could survive in the wild.

https://i.imgur.com/G6YMVoL.jpg?2

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That snider with the spit on the end seems an excellent solution to the diverse genetics of your "wapiti" it kills, cooks, and kebabs all at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

Doesn't have to be worrying stock, it has the ability to worry stock so you have the right to use your own discretion

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Yep from memory working dogs (sheepdogs) on their own are deemed to be out of control.
Good working dogs are an example of highly controlled worrying.
Grannies little pet not so.

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Originally Posted by Carlsen Highway

I have made expeditions to the Wapiti blocks twice. On the first I got burned nearly to death, and on the second drowned nearly to death. Had that have happened at the same time it would have been more convenient.
I had only moments to record this animal, and scratched it out with a hurried pencil before it disappeared. In vague hopes of having this animal identified, difficult because the vague drawing I was able to do under difficult circumstances, I posted this to the NZ Wapiti foundation. After examining this evidence, they pronounced this creature to be a Red Deer, with some wapiti blood, although they could not tell me how much, although I pressed them hard. Plainly wapiti are different to what I believed.

https://i.imgur.com/W2DtgjE.jpg

After some initial misgivings and considerable thought on the matter, I sent them also the following image, which I managed to get after wrestling this creature to the ground and then staring him in the eyes until he froze. I hypothesise that Wapiti have a defense mechanism where they lie still and hope you'll go away. I am hoping they can tell me how much red deer DNA are in this wapiti -

https://i.imgur.com/pvnUUwe.jpg

They havn't replied yet. So after taking another sample of Wapiti, I endeavoured to examine the creature myself and come to my own conclusions. Here I am trying to see how much red deer DNA is in this Wapiti -

https://i.imgur.com/yf3wuZ4.jpg

Here I am looking for a Wapiti everywhere -

https://i.imgur.com/m76ZoUZ.jpg

At last! I thought I got one, but I have sent this photo off to Canada, because upon reflection, it seems its actually some kind of Fiordland moose.

https://i.imgur.com/y3awyxf.jpg

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The animal you have drawn would test at about 65% Pure Wapiti DNA. The shot animal in the last photo is without doubt showing DNA from the Irish Elk. The flying Wapiti is an interesting genetic adaptation to a difficult environment, no doubt facilitating the seasonal movements between valleys and aiding rapid escape from Helicopters

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Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

The flying Wapiti is an interesting genetic adaptation to a difficult environment, no doubt facilitating the seasonal movements between valleys and aiding rapid escape from Helicopters

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That would make sense, perhaps developed from cross-breeding with moose which often fly to warmer areas for their winter migration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_elk
The physical similarities between the specimen in photo #5 and the Irish Elk are irrefutable evidence of it's descendants surviving to this very day. Many forms of Mega-fauna have morphed, if that is the correct term into much smaller versions of their previous selves as the planet warmed again after the last Ice Age. Sadly your specimen may have been amongst a mere handful of Irish Elk still surviving. We might consider that as the planet warms further perhaps our modern red deer will become smaller.

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Originally Posted by GravelBen

That would make sense, perhaps developed from cross-breeding with moose which often fly to warmer areas for their winter migration.

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Yes the 'Bell' or Dewlap being inflated at night with Helium from the Rumen and used to facilitate migratory flights. As these migrations take place only on very dark nights - the moose climbing to high ground in preparation, film footage is rare. The attached link however shows a disguised moose inflating it's bell-sack and escaping a Zoo complete with 'water landing'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dApRtXZRw1Y