Thread: Thermal gear. Should we have it?

OK so I know I am probably opening myself up to plenty of angry responses here. I also know that some of those responses will be along the lines of 'we all have the right to decide how we hunt' etc etc etc. Yawn. I am also ready for the 'back when scopes came out everyone probably said the same thing too' conversation. So lets just for the moment take those ones out of the equation and have a rational chat. To be frank having thermal gear in the hands of all and sundry concerns me. I know that there are a million deer out there in private open country so my question is why do we need thermal gear? I also know the same conversation could be had with spotlighting, but thermal gear is a whole jump up. As a pest control tool it is unparalleled and I have no issue with it's use there. Aside from the wide use by poachers I think there is another subtle risk from it. I think it is just another big nail in the coffin of the very reason why we all hunt. And I say hunt, not shoot folks. I worry that it is creating a culture where people just write a cheque and go shoot deer and more deer more easily. There is very little sport in thermal use that is for sure. I think we are in serious danger of totally and absolutely treating our deer like targets, more than the amazing animals that they are. There has already been an element of that creeping in with some (not all by a long stretch) long range shooting as well. C'mon lets be honest here. I know there are personal variations, but like no other tech ever invented I think thermal gear is potentially an issue. Not only that but when do the deer get a break? At what point do people actually want to do some mahi and work HARDER to be successful, not cut corners? The other thing with thermal is that is if we knew how much it is getting used at night in public land I think we would all get a big fright. No doubt everyone has heard the accounts of open country being hammered by thermal hunters. Like Tussock hut for example. And is it fair to use it in the day time instead of actually having to spot the animal yourself instead of scanning first for a heat signature. At some point I think technology may take us over a line where the very reason we hunt has been watered down to the point it stops being that one basic thing we can count on to take us out of a mad world for a while. and I worry that we are getting awfully close to it. What do people think? Should we be the bigger people and make a call to ditch it and lobby to take it out of the shops? I am not lying awake at night worrying about this but some times it doesn't hurt to ask questions instead of blindly plunging on. We certainly don't need it for recreational hunting and unlike pretty much all other tech it seems to cross a big fat line in ethics. I would appreciate your thoughts.

Have you actually hunted with thermal gear to form an opinion on this

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I think that alot of it stems from the fear that hunters using thermal gear will severely deplete the animal numbers in ones hunting area. Otherwise why would they care?

Not saying you are one @Hiawatha

The way things are going i dont think thermal will be any good on a spear or rock

Thermal is just a progression, it has its good & bad points, it isn't a magic bullet, it certainly is helpful...less so in summer.

Think sounders on boats, except they are a bigger advantage....

by same token...take gps tracking collars off dogs.....learn to run to the bark,and keep running till bail is concluded....
go back to map n compass.....no gps system with built in mapping programme.....learn to navigate
put a couple of long range capable hunters on big riverbed catchments with thermals to find mobs and what the choppers do now would look tame by comparison.
and the biggest issue...how would you propose to police it?????
then there is rangefinder scopes like burris eliminator...is that tech too much???
we arent going back to open sighted .303 SMLEs and fmj ammo with tip filed off anytime soon,so what is out there is out there. its illegal to discharge a firearm on DOC administered land during hours of darkness now.....doesnt stop it happening. again where will the line be drawn and how do you propose to police it???

Agree with Micky Duck.

Spotlighting on DOC land is supposed to be illegal. But spend any amount of time in the bush and you will see a lot of people do it anyway.

At least with thermal guys are looking for particular shapes, rather than just a quick flash of eyes. So there may well be a point to be made that thermal will increase safety...

Originally Posted by Hiawatha

OK so I know I am probably opening myself up to plenty of angry responses here. I also know that some of those responses will be along the lines of 'we all have the right to decide how we hunt' etc etc etc. Yawn. I am also ready for the 'back when scopes came out everyone probably said the same thing too' conversation. So lets just for the moment take those ones out of the equation and have a rational chat. To be frank having thermal gear in the hands of all and sundry concerns me. I know that there are a million deer out there in private open country so my question is why do we need thermal gear? I also know the same conversation could be had with spotlighting, but thermal gear is a whole jump up. As a pest control tool it is unparalleled and I have no issue with it's use there. Aside from the wide use by poachers I think there is another subtle risk from it. I think it is just another big nail in the coffin of the very reason why we all hunt. And I say hunt, not shoot folks. I worry that it is creating a culture where people just write a cheque and go shoot deer and more deer more easily. There is very little sport in thermal use that is for sure. I think we are in serious danger of totally and absolutely treating our deer like targets, more than the amazing animals that they are. There has already been an element of that creeping in with some (not all by a long stretch) long range shooting as well. C'mon lets be honest here. I know there are personal variations, but like no other tech ever invented I think thermal gear is potentially an issue. Not only that but when do the deer get a break? At what point do people actually want to do some mahi and work HARDER to be successful, not cut corners? The other thing with thermal is that is if we knew how much it is getting used at night in public land I think we would all get a big fright. No doubt everyone has heard the accounts of open country being hammered by thermal hunters. Like Tussock hut for example. And is it fair to use it in the day time instead of actually having to spot the animal yourself instead of scanning first for a heat signature. At some point I think technology may take us over a line where the very reason we hunt has been watered down to the point it stops being that one basic thing we can count on to take us out of a mad world for a while. and I worry that we are getting awfully close to it. What do people think? Should we be the bigger people and make a call to ditch it and lobby to take it out of the shops? I am not lying awake at night worrying about this but some times it doesn't hurt to ask questions instead of blindly plunging on. We certainly don't need it for recreational hunting and unlike pretty much all other tech it seems to cross a big fat line in ethics. I would appreciate your thoughts.

What's your beef?
Given your recent joining date & low post count; I'd be more concerned that you are a troll looking for another division within a hunting & shooting community....
Nothing personal, but if it's not keeping you awake at night, why not focus on bigger issues - like ensuring we don't all end up with fond memories of hunting with rifles: lobby for something that matters....

Couldn't be bothered reading that. Should we have it you ask....
Well like it or not we do have it, buy one, dont buy one, up to you.

I intend to buy thermal kit at some stage, as a substitute for a mutt. It's cheaper to run than a dog, it doesn't bark, chew stuff, or crap on the lawn.

I also like the notion that I could use it for other stuff like looking for a hot spot that might flare up into a fire, and also to search for a missing person.

Personally I believe they should be only allowed for use on private land, the same rules as spotlighting basically. While hunting in a favourite spot a few weeks back we had pick up a few animals by mid morning but nothing that we wanted to shoot when a guy turned up. not letting on about what we had seen (an still could) he unexpectedly pulled out a thermal an proceeded to go over the country we were looking at. Luckily it must have been to sunny or something as he never picked them up an eventually he went on his way. Now if he had been a young person or someone looking for their first deer or hadn't much experience that wasn't using a thermal then I would have happily pointed one out for them to try for after having a chat to them. but the way it happen it just never sat will with me an I cant say I felt guilty we he eventually bugged off to look elsewhere.

Originally Posted by mimms2

Firearms, should we have them? I mean, you can run down an animal with a dozen of your mates and kill it with a pointy stick, so why does anyone need these loud scary things that mean you can identify and engage a target further away than you can poke? Where's the sportsmanship?
Deer fuck each other up with sticks attached to their skulls.
It's only sporting, really, if you do the same, get some woodscrews and attach antlers to your skull, then go meet the animal on it's terms.

....errrr....illegal to shoot on Public land after sunset and before dawn was my understanding....spotlight, thermal, or blind faith....

Pretty sure the doc permits say it’s a no no as well as the after sunset etc

Technology has been a human thing for a very long time - including spears - we aren’t exactly the mean machines of the world otherwise
Even in recent times - day optics have made shooting several hundred metres a normal thing - normally the animal is unaware as well - same as at night really

Originally Posted by Nickoli

....errrr....illegal to shoot on Public land after sunset and before dawn was my understanding....spotlight, thermal, or blind faith....

Still a helpful tool to identify animals in darkness and wait till after sunrise to shoot which is totally legal if we are talking public land.

Originally Posted by Max Headroom

I intend to buy thermal kit at some stage, as a substitute for a mutt. It's cheaper to run than a dog, it doesn't bark, chew stuff, or crap on the lawn.

I also like the notion that I could use it for other stuff like looking for a hot spot that might flare up into a fire, and also to search for a missing person.

Yea they handy alright, I used mine a few weeks ago to find the beams inside walls to mount the new tele , awesome for springer checks during calving, have plenty of uses aside from a hunting tool

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