Thermal Imaging Rifle

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11-03-2018, 04:41 PM
Rex

Thermal Imaging Rifle

GDay.
I’m after the perfect caliber to shoot deer with a quality Thermal Imager.

I am currently shooting the TI off an AR platform. This has smoked countless animals, however isn’t giving me the desired results at 250m.
Looking to change to a bolt

These are my restraints

- light weight
- flat shooting
- quiet
- low recoil
- ammo price
- want to shoot dead as animals can be hard to find in the dark

What caliber suppresses the best?

I have been leaning toward .308 because ammo is cheap and have the option of subsonic rounds.

Thoughts?

Cheers
Rex
11-03-2018, 04:46 PM
Rex

.308 gives the option of subsonic but I understand these are not great rounds and have to be within 100m
11-03-2018, 06:02 PM
300CALMAN

68 cal

Tippmann TMCÂ*| Tippmann Sports
11-03-2018, 08:55 PM
Cordite

45/70 subsonic, someone on here posted something about that.
11-03-2018, 09:41 PM
Marty Henry

Fails his flat shooting requirement but ticks the kills dead box. Lifes all about compromise.
11-03-2018, 10:15 PM
Moutere

Take this with a pinch of salt, but is consumer grade thermal just as likely to be a limitation as much as caliber?
What one are you using out of curiosity?
I'm no expert here, but we do get some fairly high end IR gear at work. From what I've seen of the footage you see on the likes YouTube of consumer grade thermal gear in NZ is poor.
A 223 should be plenty out to 250m by day with good shot placement, I'd say using subs at night would be even less forgiving accuracy wise at that distance.
If someone can suggest a single round that ticks all those boxes I'll seriously look at getting one.
11-03-2018, 10:39 PM
timattalon

I would be wary of this one. Something feels very off with these questions.

Asking the wrong questions and with just two post. What sort of animals is he hunting in the dark that requires 250m effective range? With subs? and a suppressor? Sounds way too dodgy to me. If he had a legitimate use for such items such as working in pest control, then I would suspect he would have a greater knowledge of the subject matter and not be so uninformed. Best case scenario, he is looking for a poaching rig, worst case, he means people harm....

Hey. Is this H.D.P.A. trying a come back story??????
11-03-2018, 10:45 PM
300CALMAN

it looks like nonsense to me. Hence the paintball answer.

Media? Nutter? Poacher?
11-03-2018, 10:57 PM
223nut

Going by the title it's a bit backwards considering the rifle doesn't do the imaging... And he already has the thermal. As has been pointed out the calibre already used is effective to those distances during he day, why does it change come nightfall?

If you have the money to justify thermal imaging gear then you should really have a bit, ore knowledge regarding calibre choice....

Hey I could be completely wrong, if so nothing wrong with the 308, as has been said subsonic would limit your distance considerably but would extend further than 250m using factory or hand loads
11-03-2018, 11:56 PM
Rex

Thanks for the replies.
Yes new to this forum. We have been shooting goats and possums around our place for the last 6 months or so.
It has been a lot of fun with the AR.
I was more after a better suited cal for deer without the recoil of big cannons as I still want to shoot possums etc with it.
I know subsonic ammo is hopeless but thought it could be a bit like bow hunting as you got to be very close to shoot.
Have had great fun bow the bow on goats over the years but wouldn’t back myself on a deer!

I have seen all the threads on caliber choice but not much on recoil...
12-03-2018, 05:57 AM
tikka

A 308 is cheap to run. suppressed AR10 will work for your needs but they are heavy or a bushpig 308 can handle 250m.
12-03-2018, 08:21 AM
timattalon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex

Thanks for the replies.
Yes new to this forum. We have been shooting goats and possums around our place for the last 6 months or so.
It has been a lot of fun with the AR.
I was more after a better suited cal for deer without the recoil of big cannons as I still want to shoot possums etc with it.
I know subsonic ammo is hopeless but thought it could be a bit like bow hunting as you got to be very close to shoot.
Have had great fun bow the bow on goats over the years but wouldn’t back myself on a deer!

I have seen all the threads on caliber choice but not much on recoil...

Fair enough. 308 would be fine for deer. As the calibre gets bigger so does the recoil. However, I would suggest a 22LR for the possums for several reasons. Shooting at possums in trees with a 308 at night is far less safe than using a 22. Your 308 will have the power to travel several miles or more pointed up in that direction and checking the firing zone is not possible that far at night. 2nd, 22 is much cheaper for shooting possums at about a 10th of the cost.
12-03-2018, 08:52 AM
Rex

Good point timsttalon. Guess one caliber can’t do it all!
12-03-2018, 09:00 AM
MB

Just out of interest, can you put factory subsonic 308 rounds in a standard off the shelf rifle, say Tikka to be boring and get good results? Accepting that the range will be limited and scope would need re-zeroing.
12-03-2018, 10:44 AM
tikka

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyBoosh

Just out of interest, can you put factory subsonic 308 rounds in a standard off the shelf rifle, say Tikka to be boring and get good results? Accepting that the range will be limited and scope would need re-zeroing.

Don’t know about factory 308 subs but can reload any weight subs you like for coons and bunny’s.

As for shooting into or through trees I see no problem as long as you know the backdrop of the property like shooting onto a hillside or gully with no livestock, buildings etc and not shooting trees on the skyline.
Use the NZ Arms Code Rules 2 and 5 it’s easy, unless your a cowboy and want your license taken off you.
I shoot coons all the time on a mates property with my 300 blackout with both subs and supers no problems.
12-03-2018, 12:18 PM
Marty Henry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex

Good point timsttalon. Guess one caliber can’t do it all!

308, accelerator a 22 cal projectile in a 308 sabot, std 308 ammunition, and subsonic heavy projectiles, see one cal can do it all.
Mind you Im not sure if the accelerator is still on the market but a resourcefull chappy could easily make plastic sabots.
12-03-2018, 12:50 PM
shooternz

I don't think the accelerator round has the accuracy required to shoot even possums tried them when they first came out a flogged out .303 shot better,
a .30 is a better calibre for allround use, with subs it's about as small as is really practical, flat trajectory and sub sonic don't go together no matter how good the B.C
zeroed at 50 m the drop at 100m is going to be between 9"- 12" same as a .22LR subsonic
As for recoil not much can be done about it if you want performance Barnes 130 grain copper bullets will help.
12-03-2018, 08:31 PM
timattalon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex

Good point timsttalon. Guess one caliber can’t do it all!

Oh if only......One calibre is never enough.
12-03-2018, 08:49 PM
Paddy79

just remember that a .22 cal can still shatter a persons window at a mile away, so regardless of calibre do not be reckless with your shot.
12-03-2018, 10:02 PM
Bagheera

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex

GDay.
I’m after the perfect caliber to shoot deer with a quality Thermal Imager.

I am currently shooting the TI off an AR platform. This has smoked countless animals, however isn’t giving me the desired results at 250m.
Looking to change to a bolt

These are my restraints

- light weight
- flat shooting
- quiet
- low recoil
- ammo price
- want to shoot dead as animals can be hard to find in the dark

What caliber suppresses the best?

I have been leaning toward .308 because ammo is cheap and have the option of subsonic rounds.

Thoughts?

Cheers
Rex

This is physically impossible which is why people don't think you're a genuine hunter. Replies here are for the benefit of new shooters who may be trying to achieve some of this.

You have listed many directly conflicting tradeoffs:
low recoil vs "want to shoot dead"
Flat shooting vs quiet
light weight vs low recoil
Thermal imager vs 250m

A shooter wanting this would have to prioritise which aspects they are happy to compromise on.

The most likely problem in this hypothetical scenario is lack of accuracy. 250m is a long way. Hunting in daylight and stalking closer will solve most of it.
Achievable accuracy at 250m for an expert shot is likely to be 30cm in the field so you need a good amount of kinetic energy, like the full power .308 mentioned.
A proper night vision scope is said to have better resolution for target identification and shot placement and a bolt action will be easier to get to shoot accurately enough. A range finder will be essential too.
12-03-2018, 10:38 PM
300CALMAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paddy79

just remember that a .22 cal can still shatter a persons window at a mile away, so regardless of calibre do not be reckless with your shot.

Definitely a big risk with night vision/thermal with little depth of field view.
14-03-2018, 06:37 PM
Yukon

Our professional pest control clients shoot wallabies out to 250m with our Pulsar Trail XP50 thermal sights on .223's regularly.
15-03-2018, 12:49 PM
Ross Nolan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

308, accelerator a 22 cal projectile in a 308 sabot, std 308 ammunition, and subsonic heavy projectiles, see one cal can do it all.
Mind you Im not sure if the accelerator is still on the market but a resourcefull chappy could easily make plastic sabots.

He doesn't mention a suppressor, buuuut if so, sabot induced disassembly syndrome (SIDS) might be a problem for the can. Please video the first couple of shots if you give it a try.