Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Terminator Night Vision NZ


User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 57
Like Tree68Likes

Thread: Unformed legal road/ Paper Road access

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Normanby, Taranaki
    Posts
    13

    Unformed legal road/ Paper Road access

    Hey guys

    Im having a bit of a dilemma at the moment with paper road access.
    So there is a paper road through private property (which happens to be bee keeping land with free roaming stock), i was using to get onto the doc land here in south taranaki. I was informing the owner of access a day or two in advance out of courtesy and followed the rules he put in place like no loaded weapons through his property, no hunting on his property, etc. However after my last outing i was sent an email from said land owner saying something along the lines of not allowing access to his land anymore due to health and safety regulations. Now correct me if I'm wrong but, i didn't think you could block/ disallow access to paper roads as they are seen as unformed legal roads (coincidentally as they are named). I've done a bit of research into this and it would seem that it indeed is a paper road through the property as it is shown on topo maps, public access area maps, etc

    My question is, does his claim of the health and safety regulations have any impact/ credibility over paper roads or can i stick it to the man? (not literally, but i know you guys were thinking it that way).

    Thanks in advance for the help guys
    ~JellyBean
    PERRISCICABA likes this.

  2. #2
    Member Shearer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Tasman
    Posts
    7,136
    Experience. What you get just after you needed it.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Mainlander
    Posts
    2
    It's not his land.
    systolic and rewa like this.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Napier.
    Posts
    2,101
    Paper roads "unformed legal roads” have the same legal status as any other legal road. Public can pass and re-pass over them on foot, on horseback or in vehicles. The local council owns and administers all roads in its district (except highways) it is responsible for paper roads.

  5. #5
    Member BRADS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Central Hawkes Bay
    Posts
    9,562
    Ok we have 2 paper roads on our farm so here is my take on it.
    Yes the farmer can the close paper road if he believes it unsafe, eg a old bridge,
    He still must provide walking access, and most happily will if you respect there operation.
    In a lot of cases the actual formed track is not on the paper road, and yes in some cases the farmer may of actually purchased the road.
    I have never seen the council maintain the paper road in my or my dad's time.


    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    karlos and PERRISCICABA like this.

  6. #6
    Member PillowDribbler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rangitikei
    Posts
    525
    Roads are either formed or unformed,they both have the same legal status and can be travelled over with any method you like.They are administered by the local council now so go to them if its an ongoing problem.A lot of farmers graze these roads for weed control or plant plantation trees on them but they cant stop you from using them.Wams have got maps of road reserves,property titles.reserves,river hydro,national parks and foresrtry parks.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Waikato
    Posts
    2
    Many people use H&S as an excuse not to let people do stuff, mostly because their accountant, Lawyer or friend who doesn't understand the H&S at work act has scared them.

    It is an interesting scenario really. in my opinion he is not responsible for the H&S of a public road which, by my understanding, is what a paper road is by law. However if he has introduced a hazard/risk that you may encounter while on the 'paper road' then he could be held accountable. If he has introduced a hazard you could encounter then all he has to do is advise you of any hazards and any controls required. e.g. there is a bull in that paddock, don't go in it. or there is machinery operating in XYZ wear hi-viz and ear protection. (I do H&S for a crust)

    If I were you I'd call the guy and just have a good chat to him, having him on side will be much easier than fighting him about it.

  8. #8
    A shortish tall guy ROKTOY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Nelson
    Posts
    3,425
    Follow proper legal channels to be certain of where you stand. Quite often a formed road/track may not follow the legal boundaries of the road due to a slip, terrain etc. And if the road/track is unformed then you would have to be able to prove you were actually on the road, as quite often a track may follow the 'general' direction or path of a ULR but not be completely accurate so you may in fact be traversing private land thinking you are on a ULR.
    As Shearer stated, start by communicating with WAMS
    BRADS likes this.

  9. #9
    Member BRADS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Central Hawkes Bay
    Posts
    9,562
    Quote Originally Posted by Povnation View Post
    Many people use H&S as an excuse not to let people do stuff, mostly because their accountant, Lawyer or friend who doesn't understand the H&S at work act has scared them.

    It is an interesting scenario really. in my opinion he is not responsible for the H&S of a public road which, by my understanding, is what a paper road is by law. However if he has introduced a hazard/risk that you may encounter while on the 'paper road' then he could be held accountable. If he has introduced a hazard you could encounter then all he has to do is advise you of any hazards and any controls required. e.g. there is a bull in that paddock, don't go in it. or there is machinery operating in XYZ wear hi-viz and ear protection. (I do H&S for a crust)

    If I were you I'd call the guy and just have a good chat to him, having him on side will be much easier than fighting him about it.
    Most farmers understand health and safety very well.
    Please remember in most cases around here the paper road is a grass track never been maintained buy anyone but the farmer, you put your old Subaru over the cliff and on a track that isn't where the paper road is and guess who's going to court.

    I hope this doesnt turn into a another farmer bashing thread, then you guys wonder why you find locked gates...

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    Rich007, kokako, Nickoli and 5 others like this.

  10. #10
    Member PillowDribbler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rangitikei
    Posts
    525

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Napier.
    Posts
    2,101
    @BRADS is 100% correct council do not maintain them, farmers can deny access due to hazards like tree felling or spraying, ignore their signs and your fucked, and many paper roads have since been purchased, so contacting said farmer for what is going on is helpful, and remember tracks wash out so what is now the main track may very well be not the paper road and you are Trespassing

  12. #12
    Full of shit Ryan_Songhurst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    South Island
    Posts
    10,364
    Even if he's in the wrong he probably just got sick of dickheads abusing their "right" to cross his property, farmers don't just wake up one day and say "you know what, I feel like being a cunt"
    We have a paper road through our place and last weekend had one lot of dickheads shooting on our property itself because they "got lost trying to find the riverbed" and another lot hooning around shooting and spotlighting in the river bed which is not our land but illegal anyhow and they were spoligbting onto the property itself also, ended up with the police out here. Its this type of behaviour that makes you think fuck it, I don't care if they're "allowed" to use that access point, they can all fuck off... case of the minority ruining it for the majority I'm afraid, get a bigger violin
    gadgetman, kokako, ebf and 7 others like this.
    270 is a harmonic divisor number[1]
    270 is the fourth number that is divisible by its average integer divisor[2]
    270 is a practical number, by the second definition
    The sum of the coprime counts for the first 29 integers is 270
    270 is a sparsely totient number, the largest integer with 72 as its totient
    Given 6 elements, there are 270 square permutations[3]
    10! has 270 divisors
    270 is the smallest positive integer that has divisors ending by digits 1, 2, …, 9.

  13. #13
    Member GravelBen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Gorrre
    Posts
    3,601
    Quote Originally Posted by BT50 View Post
    It's not his land.
    This is correct.

    Being a legal road means its public land - he doesn't have any more right to use it than you do, and he isn't allowed to block it off. But that doesn't necessarily mean vehicle access is practical or expected.

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    North Canterbury
    Posts
    5,462
    All the posts stating that the unformed road is a legal road and has the same status as a formed road are correct. I can only add that you must be able to prove that you are on the legal road if challenged and not on private land. I would go to the local Council with a written request to use the road at your own risk for access from time to time and a complaint that your use of the roadway is currently being prevented by the adjoining landowner. If the farmer has applied to have the road closed, then it is the Council that will hold those records. Farmers may place gates over unformed roads but may not lock those gates or in any other way obstruct the roadway such as fencing over it ( as GravelBen states above). If you find this situation go to the Council concerned.
    gadgetman likes this.

  15. #15
    Fulla
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Cni
    Posts
    1,660
    I have a farm with paper road in mind.... It's a bulldozed track maintained by the farmer, through the middle of his land. I guess if it was formed one day it would be a proper road all fenced off no gates etc. But it's not.... So if you were the farmer.... You wouldn't mind strange people passing through your padocks/gates and stock any time they wish and maybe carrying a firearm?
    It could also be unsafe, what if the farmer is shooting and doesn't know someone is there, among other hazzards, the way the world is if something happened it would be the farmers fault for sure!
    You did the right thing by asking, it's only polite. But he's changed his mind, leave it at that.
    Steve123 and Blisters like this.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Punchy's Road...,
    By BruceY in forum Hunting
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 28-02-2016, 10:31 AM
  2. Owawenga road end
    By hunter308 in forum Hunting
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 31-12-2014, 09:58 PM
  3. Road access to kawhatau base ruahines
    By sakokid in forum Hunting
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-12-2014, 04:20 AM
  4. Replies: 27
    Last Post: 03-07-2013, 10:03 AM
  5. Off road insurance
    By nor-west in forum Outdoor Transport
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 16-10-2012, 08:06 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Welcome to NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums! We see you're new here, or arn't logged in. Create an account, and Login for full access including our FREE BUY and SELL section Register NOW!!