Thread: Warning Distressing and Disturbing Photographs- 1080 Poison

Originally Posted by jim160

I know this would cause an argument, but they would reply asking for scientific proof it was 1080 that killed it.
Was the animal analysed to prove it was 1080 that killed it.

And what state would the bird and forest be in if they stopped using 1080.

Pretty sure that the rats, stoats and possums would probably kill more birds and plant life than 1080 ever would.

@jim160

Re whether it was 1080, the image is Rushy's from a posting here in 2012. He pictured half a dozen deer which had suddenly decided to drop dead in a 1080 drop zone. Not much math required.

Anyway, no one says we should do nothing to balance things in the bush, but "pest" eradication is a pipe dream except in fenced sanctuaries -- the only type of place where 1080 has a non-futile role.

New Zealanders need to step back and admit there is a status quo and pest species are here to stay - be they maori, rats, pigs, pakeha, deer, opossums. Everywhere there will be a need to keep on trapping and hunting to keep the balance, that's just clean and green.

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Have a look in the "What pests did you bowl over today" (or what ever it's title is) thread. There are some quite graphic pictures of dead animals there too.
I'd suggest that if you want to dish up shit on one lot of pictures, be prepared to take heat on others which we may deem acceptable.

@7mmwsm


Yes, I have noticed that thread. Some of it is gross, but that said, none of those animals died a lingering death from a slow acting poison. Bad taste portrayal of the dead animals bodies, that is a fair criticism of that thread. You on the other hand hear some here say that they'll never have a photo taken with them sitting on top of a dead deer.

But on the pest bowl over thread, I suggest we look at the underlying thinking. I perceive most of the offensive picture posters do hold NZ conservationist views --- whether they realise it or not.

There is flawed NZ assumption that because certain species are exotic/non-indigenous they are "just [worthless] pests [not deserving respect]". It's disturbing to encounter such attitudes when you did not grow up yourself with NZ conservationism indoctrination.

'Pest free NZ' ideology is alive, rotten, and with us everywhere: from 1080 drops to massive Tahr culls to pest-bowl-over threads. But it is quite easy to debunk.

The pity is when you scone a small animal with a hi speed projectile it is usually messy? Ive posted some grim pics on that thread, it was instant death and not being morbid or for any other reason, that’s the outcome from the cause! It’s the outcome I see no reason to not post?

Originally Posted by Maca49

The pity is when you scone a small animal with a hi speed projectile it is usually messy? Ive posted some grim pics on that thread, it was instant death and not being morbid or for any other reason, that’s the outcome from the cause! It’s the outcome I see no reason to not post?

@Maca49

Yes, quick and painless, but therefore gory. On the other hand, it is ever so polite and quiet, even bordering on vegan, to slowly kill a fellow creature by poisoning it. There, the problem of the urban sheltered masses who vote for those who wield the green poison.

Ah but they believe in a pest free NZ and there’s only one way, been achieving the ultimate since way back in the 50s? Duh fail? Oh that’s right there’s NO other way, why? Because we make to much money out of the current way, don’t fix what ain’t broken? I don’t mine killing animals for food or if they’re a pest, in a humane manner, they’d is sometimes messy!

I think the hype on 1080 is misguided.
The VERY first thing you have to realise is that it IS A POISON. That means it wont kill things politely and let them rest on a feathered pillow in a quiet room to slowly and eventually shuffle from this mortal coil. Its a POISON they all kill things badly.
Even when we were knocking off naughty prisoners for murder they used a POISON.
Its not just 1080 that should be getting the flak here. ALL poisons will kill thats what they do.
When people say we need a better poison I just roll my eyes.
What we do need is less predators of our wildlife, and a way to achieve that on a large scale. To hopefully prevent the decline of some of our endangered species.
Knocking 1080 is an easy cop out, yes we know its bad ... read the above, its a fucken poison!!
The most cost effective method to kill target species is to apply it well, and accurately. That is what needs to be focused on here. With all the anti 1080 protest thats gone on for the last umpteen years here in NZ, what has been achieved?

End of rant.

Originally Posted by johnd

I think the hype on 1080 is misguided.
The VERY first thing you have to realise is that it IS A POISON. That means it wont kill things politely and let them rest on a feathered pillow in a quiet room to slowly and eventually shuffle from this mortal coil. Its a POISON they all kill things badly.
Even when we were knocking off naughty prisoners for murder they used a POISON.
Its not just 1080 that should be getting the flak here. ALL poisons will kill thats what they do.
When people say we need a better poison I just roll my eyes.
What we do need is less predators of our wildlife, and a way to achieve that on a large scale. To hopefully prevent the decline of some of our endangered species.
Knocking 1080 is an easy cop out, yes we know its bad ... read the above, its a fucken poison!!
The most cost effective method to kill target species is to apply it well, and accurately. That is what needs to be focused on here. With all the anti 1080 protest thats gone on for the last umpteen years here in NZ, what has been achieved?

End of rant.

I don’t think there’s been a Lot of energy gone into alternatives, for obvious reasons.

Originally Posted by johnd

I think the hype on 1080 is misguided.
The VERY first thing you have to realise is that it IS A POISON. That means it wont kill things politely and let them rest on a feathered pillow in a quiet room to slowly and eventually shuffle from this mortal coil. Its a POISON they all kill things badly.
Even when we were knocking off naughty prisoners for murder they used a POISON.
Its not just 1080 that should be getting the flak here. ALL poisons will kill thats what they do.
When people say we need a better poison I just roll my eyes.
What we do need is less predators of our wildlife, and a way to achieve that on a large scale. To hopefully prevent the decline of some of our endangered species.
Knocking 1080 is an easy cop out, yes we know its bad ... read the above, its a fucken poison!!
The most cost effective method to kill target species is to apply it well, and accurately. That is what needs to be focused on here. With all the anti 1080 protest thats gone on for the last umpteen years here in NZ, what has been achieved?

End of rant.

John allow me to marginally modify your penultimate sentence to pose a slightly different question. "With all the 1080 that's gone on (our forests) for the last umpteen years here in NZ, what has been achieved"?

I admit that I am one of the anti 1080 members of our society (not a protester mind) and my opposition to its application is perhaps different to many. Yes I abhor the hideous deaths it causes but as you say, that is the nature of poisons the world over. My opposition hinges on the huge sums of money that this country has spent repeating for several decades the application of 1080 as a solution to a problem when it demonstrably has not produced the intended result. We should simply be smarter than that. It is dumb of us in the extreme to keep doing the same thing in the vain and glorious hope that it will produce a different result.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLV1uNaTlA0

Take a look at this.

I hope the national and international communities all see this.

Originally Posted by Woody

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLV1uNaTlA0

Take a look at this.

I hope the national and international communities all see this.

I wish it was possible to have a rational discussion with you about this one Woody.
More to this story than 1080......

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

I really fail to see why there so much emotion around 1080. We have been poisoning, gassing, shooting, and using dogs and ferrets on Peter, Flopsy, Mopsy, and Cottontail pretty much since they arrived and recently have added what you could call a viral biological weapon to that list but no one seems to mind.? Whats the difference.

Originally Posted by BRADS

I wish it was possible to have a rational discussion with you about this one Woody.
More to this story than 1080......

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

I think there is more to come yet. The full pre drop details to get things very clear. However, what is abundantly clear is that there are very serious consequences that can and do occur associated with 1080 use. The risk to our agricultural industry is severe imo.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

I really fail to see why there so much emotion around 1080. We have been poisoning, gassing, shooting, and using dogs and ferrets on Peter, Flopsy, Mopsy, and Cottontail pretty much since they arrived and recently have added what you could call a viral biological weapon to that list but no one seems to mind.? Whats the difference.

@Marty Henry

In my book, the difference is unnecessary suffering, read cruelty. Bullets/gas/traps kill quickly, but 1080 can take several days, and some animals even recover.

Originally Posted by johnd

I think the hype on 1080 is misguided.
The VERY first thing you have to realise is that it IS A POISON. That means it wont kill things politely and let them rest on a feathered pillow in a quiet room to slowly and eventually shuffle from this mortal coil. Its a POISON they all kill things badly.
Even when we were knocking off naughty prisoners for murder they used a POISON.
Its not just 1080 that should be getting the flak here. ALL poisons will kill thats what they do.
When people say we need a better poison I just roll my eyes.
What we do need is less predators of our wildlife, and a way to achieve that on a large scale. To hopefully prevent the decline of some of our endangered species.
Knocking 1080 is an easy cop out, yes we know its bad ... read the above, its a fucken poison!!
The most cost effective method to kill target species is to apply it well, and accurately. That is what needs to be focused on here. With all the anti 1080 protest thats gone on for the last umpteen years here in NZ, what has been achieved?

End of rant.

John you are not at all correct in your statement 'It's a poison they all kill things badly'. For many years Cyanide has been used in various forms for poisoning possums. It kills very quickly (seconds) by acting on the part of the brain that controls breathing and at the same time binding oxygen. Before that Strychnine was used for rabbits. It also killed quickly. Phosphorous was used to poison wild pigs. It killed slowly with an agonising death. 1080 is used because it is stable in cereal baits and persists in the bodies of poisoned creatures for secondary killing.
The biggest problem with poison dropped from the air over bush is that up to 50% lands and sits in trees were it targets the birds we are supposed to save. Don't believe the official line - for example that possums predate on birds - Possums cant digest meat. When did you ever see a possum eating road kill?
Continuous cycles of poisoning and predator population recovery/explosion cannot go on forever. Permanent kill trap barrier lines and humane poison bait stations are the only long term solution for areas without exclusion fences.
Addressing your other false assertions above,
When chemical execution takes place a sedative is first administered along with a lignocaine drug. Even the Nazi's used a humane gas - Zyclon B which is Cyanide based.
Perhaps instead of 'rolling your eyes' you should open them. If you think that inflicting intentional cruelty and death to our fellow creatures is right, then you have something severely wrong with your moral compass my friend.

Originally Posted by Woody
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLV1uNaTlA0

Take a look at this.

I hope the national and international communities all see this.


@BRADS comment---I wish it was possible to have a rational discussion with you about this one Woody.
More to this story than 1080......

Well Brads, when you get around to feeling rational then; feel free to inform us all what the "more to this story" actually is. I for one would like to see some more clarity about the whole incident. If you can provide that it would be good.