Thread: Warning Distressing and Disturbing Photographs- 1080 Poison

Originally Posted by kiwijames

11 years old with a common sense notice for the 4 poisons listed.
Good to see you’re still as relevant as ever

11 years 'Kiwijames' Hell! that is only a small moment in time compared to the years we have been involved in dropping this particularly dirty poison from the air. Many people are asking now if its still relevant to continue to use the same failed method of pest control for 64 years. 1080 has proved a failure and our forest are in a much worse state than when we started dropping it.
You might say we at 'POISON FREE NZ' have already found our voice as the Tahr Hunters and Conservationists are just starting to find their own.
Hunters, trout fishermen, white baiters, and all those people who take food from the Forest have realised that if they want to continue to do this, things have to be brought rapidly to a head with this Government. The increasing number of drops, the increase in the potency of the pellets, the zip factor of three drops on targeted area within selected Forests in a month and the super drops planned for next year mean that you 'Pansy's are going to have to piss or get off your potty's very soon.

Originally Posted by Graeme Sturgeon

11 years 'Kiwijames' Hell! that is only one sixth of the time we have been involved in dropping this particularly dirty poison from the air. Many people are asking now if its still relevant to continue to use the same failed method of pest control for 64 years. 1080 has proved a failure and our forest are in a much worse state than when we started dropping it.
You might say we at 'POISON FREE NZ' have already found our voice as the Tahr Hunters and Conservationists are just starting to find their own.
Hunters, trout fishermen, white baiters, and all those people who take food from the Forest have realised that if they want to continue to do this, things have to be brought rapidly to a head with this Government. The increasing number of drops, the increase in the potency of the pellets, the zip factor of three drops on targeted area within selected Forests in a month and the super drops planned for next year mean that you 'Pansy's are going to have to piss or get off your potty's very soon.

You are attempting to create a link between your anti 1080 cause and unrelated issues, and gain leverage from them. That is mischievous. There is no link between the Tahr cull, whitebait and for that matter the trout and salmon issues with 1080.

Also, the Tahr Foundation have since 20 Sept raised $135,000 - that is what can be achieved when a reasonably minded Foundation and hunter support pull together.

Why this has never occurred for your cause is a critical question that you should ask yourself.

Originally Posted by Tahr

You are attempting to create a link between your anti 1080 cause from unrelated issues and gain leverage from them. That is mischievous. There is no link between the Tahr cull, whitebait and for that matter the trout and salmon issues with 1080.

Also, the Tahr Foundation have since 20 Sept raised $135,000 - that is what can be achieved when a reasonably minded Foundation and hunter support pull together.

Why this has never occurred for your cause is a critical question that you should ask yourself.

I was thinking the same thing at lunchtime Bruce when I saw the that very thing on a 1080 Facebook page...

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The type of operations I outlined as a base principle are in effect "output contracts", which are geared to achieve a specific outcome for a specific cost. (the cost being at or close to the current 1080 aerial expenditures) This is essentially giving knowledgeable trappers the opportunity to come up with their own initiatives RATHER THAN the unimaginative rule, regulation and protocol burdened "Input contracts" currently insisted on by the government agencies, smothered with costly protocols and over regulation to protect inefficient personnel and taxpayer dependent departments from accountability. The contracts would operate on an accounting based on productivity rather than the archetypical civil service mentality of expenditure of the money bag which tends to drive growth of inefficient protocol smothered bureaucracies and pie in the sky distracting experiments. As I've said before; the knowledge and skills have been here all along but have been deliberately ignored and actively suppressed by various governmental agencies for decades.

Originally Posted by Tahr

You are attempting to create a link between your anti 1080 cause and unrelated issues, and gain leverage from them. That is mischievous. There is no link between the Tahr cull, whitebait and for that matter the trout and salmon issues with 1080.

Also, the Tahr Foundation have since 20 Sept raised $135,000 - that is what can be achieved when a reasonably minded Foundation and hunter support pull together.

Why this has never occurred for your cause is a critical question that you should ask yourself.

The link is easy to find 'Tahr'. 'EUGENIC RAGE' The unelected Green Party member who is the Minister Of Conservation. She has found 80 million dollars more for her budget. What she aims to do with this money does not have to be spelled out. It will be poured into extermination campaigns Reduction of Tahr numbers by 27500 from a herd which may be less than 35000. Does she intend to listen to the hunters, no, she will continue to take her advise from City bred organizations until she is made to listen to the hunters.

More mischief from the Minister is the desire to curtail the sale of whitebait and the numbers caught. There is no science that backs her claims of diminishing numbers of bait. When I talk to white baiters which I am one, they mostly have catch records, 'the best science of the lot' that show the fishery is alive and well. The white baiters are so suspicious of the 'unholy alliance' that they will not show their records to anyone If the councils would stop spraying the river banks and letting farmers cows trample the salt grass where the fish lay their eggs it would be of more use.

More from our Minister, Trout, I have heard them described by DoC and their partners in crime the Green Party and Forest and Bird as the possums of the waterways. I and all I speak to, don't believe that the mandate to poison trout even in our most Iconic waterways is a good policy. But 'Poisoners' think differently to the rest of the country we realise.

So this is why I think all these silken threads from the Hand of the Minister are what will be used to slowly strangle the fisherman and the Hunter/Gatherer. It will be done slowly and with such stealth that most will not even be aware that the cord is already around their neck. The raising of the $135,000 for the Tahr Foundation is admirable. But we count our numbers in troops and have much higher numbers than that of troops on the ground signed up. We count our successes in the cases we have brought before the courts. The Brook Valley Case, The Poisoning of the Auckland water supplies, The case very soon before the Maori courts to stop the North Auckland, Russell 1080 drop. These have cost a lot of money.

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

I think that the argument people use that "1080 has been used for decades and we still have possums, so it doesn't work" is a flawed argument.
Trappers have been trapping for decades also and we still have possums. Woody even factored in follow up trapping in his program. No system we have at present is able to take out possums for good.

I also think it is good that this thread has gone on so long and things have stayed reasonably civil. Usually after twenty odd pages on 1080 someone has chucked their toys and there's often a banned sticker across someones name.

Only cause I like ya

to get back to the theme of this thread ...... distressing and disturbing photos.

Oh my gawd.

Originally Posted by Woody

The type of operations I outlined as a base principle are in effect "output contracts", which are geared to achieve a specific outcome for a specific cost. (the cost being at or close to the current 1080 aerial expenditures).

The cost is not even close to being similar. In your own words you are comparing the cost of 3 days worth of trapping to the cost of applying 1080 once every 3 years. The more you repeat it, the more your argument looks like a joke...

Woody, why is it that aerial 1080 is so much cheaper than ground-based 1080 ? The total cost to DOC for all predator control looks to be around $70 / ha. This is the average for different poisons, different techniques etc. Aerial spread (which is only a portion of the total 1080 operations), is by far the cheapest option.

Originally Posted by ebf

is by far the cheapest option.

Cheaper is always better, Aye ?

Depends on whose money you're spending Greg

I'm not making any value judgements on what is best.

But when someone says that can do do the job for the same cost when I know for a fact its going to cost many, many times that amount because they happen to not be working efficiently, or have the wrong skillset etc, and I end up having to pay for it, guess who is not going to be a happy bunny ?

Take a squiz at this

https://youtu.be/dXgaAGNpn9c

@ebf. Better go back to school mate and learn arithmetic.
I am clearly talking full time operations on-going. It is so obvious that you exemplify the tunnel vision that typifies the DoC and OSPRI spin (and many Council civil servants). None so blind as those who refuse to see and try to force and coerce others to remain is a big pile of s--t with them.
I reiterate my baseline challenge. I also predicted DoC et al would choke on it because they have dug themselves a great hole and a great bureaucracy with the entirely predictable result of fear of free enterprise, initiative and real threat to themselves (their wasteful jobs and waste of public money).
Your comments are so narrow viewed and irrational that it is obvious you are one of those poor souls locked into the inane propaganda poison loop.
I hope you pay attention to the youtube link above, actually produced by public at their own cost, to tell the truth, even though they, like the rest of us, have already been forced to help pay for the sad spin of the DoC and OSPRI agencies.

Originally Posted by chainsaw

to get back to the theme of this thread ...... distressing and disturbing photos.
Attachment 95753

Looks like my grandmother??

Originally Posted by Woody

Take a squiz at this

https://youtu.be/dXgaAGNpn9c

I just can't take this seriously. 89 dead Kiwi in Tongariro attributed to 1080 - what a crock. I challenge you or anyone Woody to put up any proof what so ever a a single one of them were killed by 1080.
Almost every time you guys put something up like this it discredits you.