We need a "breaks out the commercial catering roll of tinfoil" smileys face thing
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We need a "breaks out the commercial catering roll of tinfoil" smileys face thing
Quit ya belly aching! There's lots of other countries that kill you to fix the problem!! I bitch and moan, but I ain't moving anywhere else. Well presently that is!:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
Fixed :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Maca49
I'd go Waikato and fluoride, don't need the other YET!
which would put out a legal president(spelt wrong???) so no one could use it again or face the same.......either its ok to use or its not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munsey
that doesnt make sence without first bit......poisoning pet deer on purpose to film it.
For those attending the Sika Show in a couple of weeks, a line of protest to this poisoning could be to let DOC and/or any associated stands at said show, aware of your displeasure. I’m intending to do that and if enough people do complain, there may be a ‘carry back’ to various powers that be.
@Ingrid 51 Send them this post card:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingrid 51
Attachment 95510
I know this would cause an argument, but they would reply asking for scientific proof it was 1080 that killed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cordite
Was the animal analysed to prove it was 1080 that killed it.
And what state would the bird and forest be in if they stopped using 1080.
Pretty sure that the rats, stoats and possums would probably kill more birds and plant life than 1080 ever would.
never mind which is more deadly to the birds etc. that 1080 is nasty stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by jim160
Id prefer to pay more for a humane way of doing things.
I agree if there is a better way to get it doen, then by all means that's what we need.
But what I was getting at is that the possums, rats and stoats will kill heaps of birds and plant life all by themselves than 1080 ever would.
The 1080 controls the pest numbers so that they can survive.
@jim160Quote:
Originally Posted by jim160
Re whether it was 1080, the image is Rushy's from a posting here in 2012. He pictured half a dozen deer which had suddenly decided to drop dead in a 1080 drop zone. Not much math required.
Anyway, no one says we should do nothing to balance things in the bush, but "pest" eradication is a pipe dream except in fenced sanctuaries -- the only type of place where 1080 has a non-futile role.
New Zealanders need to step back and admit there is a status quo and pest species are here to stay - be they maori, rats, pigs, pakeha, deer, opossums. Everywhere there will be a need to keep on trapping and hunting to keep the balance, that's just clean and green.
@7mmwsmQuote:
Originally Posted by 7mmwsm
Yes, I have noticed that thread. Some of it is gross, but that said, none of those animals died a lingering death from a slow acting poison. Bad taste portrayal of the dead animals bodies, that is a fair criticism of that thread. You on the other hand hear some here say that they'll never have a photo taken with them sitting on top of a dead deer.
But on the pest bowl over thread, I suggest we look at the underlying thinking. I perceive most of the offensive picture posters do hold NZ conservationist views --- whether they realise it or not.
There is flawed NZ assumption that because certain species are exotic/non-indigenous they are "just [worthless] pests [not deserving respect]". It's disturbing to encounter such attitudes when you did not grow up yourself with NZ conservationism indoctrination.
'Pest free NZ' ideology is alive, rotten, and with us everywhere: from 1080 drops to massive Tahr culls to pest-bowl-over threads. But it is quite easy to debunk.
The pity is when you scone a small animal with a hi speed projectile it is usually messy? Ive posted some grim pics on that thread, it was instant death and not being morbid or for any other reason, that’s the outcome from the cause! It’s the outcome I see no reason to not post?
@Maca49Quote:
Originally Posted by Maca49
Yes, quick and painless, but therefore gory. On the other hand, it is ever so polite and quiet, even bordering on vegan, to slowly kill a fellow creature by poisoning it. There, the problem of the urban sheltered masses who vote for those who wield the green poison.
Attachment 95522
Ah but they believe in a pest free NZ and there’s only one way, been achieving the ultimate since way back in the 50s? Duh fail? Oh that’s right there’s NO other way, why? Because we make to much money out of the current way, don’t fix what ain’t broken? I don’t mine killing animals for food or if they’re a pest, in a humane manner, they’d is sometimes messy!
I think the hype on 1080 is misguided.
The VERY first thing you have to realise is that it IS A POISON. That means it wont kill things politely and let them rest on a feathered pillow in a quiet room to slowly and eventually shuffle from this mortal coil. Its a POISON they all kill things badly.
Even when we were knocking off naughty prisoners for murder they used a POISON.
Its not just 1080 that should be getting the flak here. ALL poisons will kill thats what they do.
When people say we need a better poison I just roll my eyes.
What we do need is less predators of our wildlife, and a way to achieve that on a large scale. To hopefully prevent the decline of some of our endangered species.
Knocking 1080 is an easy cop out, yes we know its bad ... read the above, its a fucken poison!!
The most cost effective method to kill target species is to apply it well, and accurately. That is what needs to be focused on here. With all the anti 1080 protest thats gone on for the last umpteen years here in NZ, what has been achieved?
End of rant.
I don’t think there’s been a Lot of energy gone into alternatives, for obvious reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd
John allow me to marginally modify your penultimate sentence to pose a slightly different question. "With all the 1080 that's gone on (our forests) for the last umpteen years here in NZ, what has been achieved"?Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd
I admit that I am one of the anti 1080 members of our society (not a protester mind) and my opposition to its application is perhaps different to many. Yes I abhor the hideous deaths it causes but as you say, that is the nature of poisons the world over. My opposition hinges on the huge sums of money that this country has spent repeating for several decades the application of 1080 as a solution to a problem when it demonstrably has not produced the intended result. We should simply be smarter than that. It is dumb of us in the extreme to keep doing the same thing in the vain and glorious hope that it will produce a different result.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLV1uNaTlA0
Take a look at this.
I hope the national and international communities all see this.
:wtfsmilie:
I wish it was possible to have a rational discussion with you about this one Woody.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody
More to this story than 1080......
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
I really fail to see why there so much emotion around 1080. We have been poisoning, gassing, shooting, and using dogs and ferrets on Peter, Flopsy, Mopsy, and Cottontail pretty much since they arrived and recently have added what you could call a viral biological weapon to that list but no one seems to mind.? Whats the difference.
I think there is more to come yet. The full pre drop details to get things very clear. However, what is abundantly clear is that there are very serious consequences that can and do occur associated with 1080 use. The risk to our agricultural industry is severe imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADS
@Marty HenryQuote:
Originally Posted by Marty Henry
In my book, the difference is unnecessary suffering, read cruelty. Bullets/gas/traps kill quickly, but 1080 can take several days, and some animals even recover.
John you are not at all correct in your statement 'It's a poison they all kill things badly'. For many years Cyanide has been used in various forms for poisoning possums. It kills very quickly (seconds) by acting on the part of the brain that controls breathing and at the same time binding oxygen. Before that Strychnine was used for rabbits. It also killed quickly. Phosphorous was used to poison wild pigs. It killed slowly with an agonising death. 1080 is used because it is stable in cereal baits and persists in the bodies of poisoned creatures for secondary killing.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd
The biggest problem with poison dropped from the air over bush is that up to 50% lands and sits in trees were it targets the birds we are supposed to save. Don't believe the official line - for example that possums predate on birds - Possums cant digest meat. When did you ever see a possum eating road kill?
Continuous cycles of poisoning and predator population recovery/explosion cannot go on forever. Permanent kill trap barrier lines and humane poison bait stations are the only long term solution for areas without exclusion fences.
Addressing your other false assertions above,
When chemical execution takes place a sedative is first administered along with a lignocaine drug. Even the Nazi's used a humane gas - Zyclon B which is Cyanide based.
Perhaps instead of 'rolling your eyes' you should open them. If you think that inflicting intentional cruelty and death to our fellow creatures is right, then you have something severely wrong with your moral compass my friend.
Originally Posted by Woody
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLV1uNaTlA0
Take a look at this.
I hope the national and international communities all see this.
@BRADS comment---I wish it was possible to have a rational discussion with you about this one Woody.
More to this story than 1080......
Well Brads, when you get around to feeling rational then; feel free to inform us all what the "more to this story" actually is. I for one would like to see some more clarity about the whole incident. If you can provide that it would be good.
About as acceptable as 1080?
https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&so...Wekh7sbP9wum_k
think about this -how many decades have assorted NZ govt via their agencies tried to wipe out red deer thar chamois etc and the old red&co just quietly bounce back .how fucking long has this 1080 shit been thrown about after a zillion cyanide gin traps motor vehicle tyres and assorted lead blow jobs have attempted to cull the fucking feral australian import?????????? ,but wait.....theres another ....bloody great jacko up the treee filling his guts and snarling or taunting you.
humans wake the fuck up youll never .repeat never ever beat the animal kingdom for surviving in an onslaught in modern times.
its simple -ol ma nature as shes proven time&time again will decide when their reign is over and extinction follows-not some computer educated spotty arsed wee human herbert or some semi erected(oops elected)humanic variety called a minister of the crown.
oh hold on our very acidic astute academic colony will say im talking shit-up yours the truth hurts!
@kotuku. I heard parliament is buzzing lately.
There is literally video of possums raiding nests and eating fledglings. However their primary predation is of eggs. Ever notice how the drops are often based around this time of year? Increasing fledgling recruitment is the primary goal. Questioning the verifiable science isn't the way forward if you are the opposed to the use of 1080. I'm not sure where you get your assertion that they can't digest meat. The science suggests otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
No one actually laying 1080 believes it is going to eliminate predators from an area, but it does(in most cases) knock numbers down enough to increase recruitment and end up with a net gain in native bird population. Its surely not perfect, and its definitely overused, (ie around accessible bush) but it is for the most part better than nothing.
Stimulates rat breeding by 2-300% very well too, then followed by increases in stoat populations ay. Really clever.:wtfsmilie:
@ Moa Hunter
Do possums eat meat? Well...
I saw a possum eating meat (another possum) on Coast Road, Wainuiomata earlier this year. All that was left of the earlier possum was the leg that the possum I saw had in its mouth.
I was surprised and tried to video it, but it took off.
I’m not a massive fan of 1080, but I can’t support the alternative at this stage.
One of the private blocks that I hunt is now out of action for a short period of time as the adjacent public land was 1080ed last week. I’ve waited out the stand down before and there’s no shortage of deer in the Hauragis now.
It’s a senseless debate to get in online and I totally understand the passion that anti 1080 people have for the current program. None of them seem to have a viable, cost effective alternative at this stage.
Either way it’s sad.
cyanide is not always instantaneous .it acts by blocking the ability of the blood streams red cells to attract /bind to haemaglobin =how you get your oxygen,but the actual blocking of this aint always gonna stop ya on the spot .the tactics of nazi concentration camp staff and reports of evidence when chambers were subsequently opened to dispose of victims ,plus reports of executions in the good ol US of A ,shows some horrendous agony before the doomed finally succumb.still overall if its achoice twixt cyanide and 1080 its pretty one sided.
actually pity that vertical rabid hursuite four eyed greenie wasnt made to sit and watch some of these bloody animals in their death throes. how in christs name some thing that was NEVER democratically elected can grandiosely state she speaks for me is well beyond my comprehension.
Cyklon-B, 20-25minutes before terrified screams ceased. CO from Russian tank engine exhaust, slightly quicker.
WW2 SOE agents issued potassium cyanide capsules were told they would work instantly and painlessly... well, you'd not want to believe otherwise in their shoes, would you? But in fairness it was a matter of within a few minutes.. though with pain, frothing at the mouth and all.
Bullets, kill-traps, quicker acting poisons remain the kindest options to keep predator populations in balance. In the end, predators need predators, and short of introducing such species the NZ Hunter has his and her place.
Link? Not being snidey I am legitimately curious. If it's the article I think it is they conveniently left out the fact it was a mast year which lead to huge amounts of mice and rats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody
But yeah competitive dampening is a very real negative. And hard to predict side effect of 1080.
Go to
1080 Science | Scientific findings on 1080
There is all the proof you need there. And apart from the plethora of science on that site, DoC recently admitted to needing annual doses of poison on Heaphy track because the rats keep bouncing back after 1080 drops. It's well known, but took uears for doc to admit the fact.
Go to
1080 Science | Scientific findings on 1080
There is all the proof you need there. And apart from the plethora of science on that site, DoC recently admitted to needing annual doses of poison on Heaphy track because the rats keep bouncing back after 1080 drops. It's well known, but took uears for doc to admit the fact.
Well, Craig, the alternative has been available for as long as 1080. The problem is that it has had virtually nil financial support (deliberately) from successive governments, and yet has been for the most part self financed. Nor has it been properly set into a managed long term publicly funded industry , while 1080 has. It has virtually nil by kill of non target species and has the potential to do as good or better job than 1080 with great socio-economic benefits as well, and virtually no pollution of waterways.Quote:
Originally Posted by craigc
If trapping in its many forms was financed equally as 1080 is, there would be queue a mile long to take the job on.
The naysayers claim people wouldn't work in the conditions, cant be trained quickly etc. However, that is not true either, as has been proven repeatedly by the keeness of Fijian, and other pacific neighbors eagerly wanting to come here, and are now some of the best forest and farm and horticultural workers in our country.
ONE CAN ONLY CONCLUDE THAT THE SUPPRESSION OF THIS VERY VIABLE ALTERNATIVE TO 108O IS DELIBERATE.
Currently we are being hooked well over $60 per ha to finance 1080. A reasonable trapper can traverse a prepared line of 200 ha per day. 200 * $60 = $12,000. When you look into the economics you can see why the 1080 industry and DoC suppress the truth.
When I refer to 200 ha line, it is a line 10km long, with traps at approx 100m intervals servicing out to 100m laterally. (1 ha is 100m * 100m and 1000m per km. Ball park figures , but it gives the general picture. Light rat traps can be additionally spaced. The opportunity exists for crew fly camps serviced by helicopters in rugged remote areas. Also a percentage of fur, skins and meat can be recovered as suitable.
apparently the press and some mps were told that the dead birds were not all from a 1080 drop area, and that some were roadkill, yet on the news, they had been all bludgened to death. my friend gave a statement to tv3, after they had filmed it the camera man said what a good interview, but it was never shown on tv3.
Typical by govt controlled media.
