Thread: what makes a true hunter?

mollyman...awesome first post and other than begging to differ on the made not born bit agree 99.9% only because some of us were born to hunt,if it wasnt game animals the DRIVE to hunt wouldve gone elsewhere but it still is inbred in me....
you write well and I look forward to your continued input on discussions
welcome.

Thanks Micky Duck,

This lockdown has forced me to dust the keyboard off

Re the made not born reference, i'm more referring to I think everyone that engages in the activity we call "hunting" has in some form what you speak of, an element we can't really explain that drives us to go "hunting" a natural instinct you could call it.

But my personal belief is that's not enough to be a "true hunter". That's a great start but you then must refine yourself to get those skills and traits as mentioned. It takes time on the hill facing adversity, learning from mistakes no one is perfect but everyone has the opportunity to learn from them. And over coming the many many challenges nature/people/animals can throw at you and coming out the other side with a smile on your face. And probably most important is that you've grown out of the mentality that I must kill everything so my mates/family think i'm a good "hunter" and I have something to show off. That can take some a long time and some never grow out of it.

Or the other way is having a "true hunter" as mentor pass those on traits, beliefs and skills on. It's a never ending learning curve but like anything the more you do it the better you get, and the higher your standards become of yourself and others. Some will never have standards, others it may take years but there comes a point in time where killing for the sake of killing isn't fun and you can only eat so much venison. I believe you become a "true hunter" when killing is something is only done when all of your standards/ethics are meet.

Some of the best hunters I know and have meet probably shoot 3 or 4 deer a year if that. And that's by choice. I think once you have these skills/traits you also get the full experience as to what "hunting" really offers the human spirit and you value the mountains, the peace, the life on the hill as much as the 300ds stag or the 14 inch bull tahr.

Ethics and patience. lots of patience.

Really..........

Originally Posted by quadhunter260

bit of self doubt and wondering i guess i see my mates shanksponying in into decent backblocks for hard earned stags,bucks n bulls or my pig hunting mates doing hard slog kms for pork
kinda feel a pretender/wannabe with having to have it "easier" (probs bad wording) or just over thinking and confusing myself highly likely 樂

I'm not answering your question, but I think the fact that you have continued to hunt despite your limitations is a mark of a true hunter.

Every hunter is hunting to their own limitations and abilities, if it’s fair chase it’s hunting, if it’s canned with a guaranteed outcome it’s shooting. The meat will taste the same, the feeling you get from using your own abilities whatever they are to pull it off can’t be given a dollar value.
It’s all semantics if you are the deer.

I think this is a great question, although one that's not necessarily easy to answer, depending on ones perspective. I see similar debates appear on fishing forums regularly. I think for many that respond to the same question on fishing forums it's perhaps a little more black and white... species A has such & such a limit... species B has such & such a limit... those perhaps give some kind of 'moral' guideline with which to judge others... whereas with terrestrial hunting we don't have those restrictions of bag limits etc, and given the 'introduced/pest' status of terrestrial species we hunt the moral issues applied to fishing/hunting aquatic species (ie. overfishing) don't seem to hold as much ground in a lot of arguments.

But I think ultimately it comes down to individual motivations. And that's where stuff gets heated and people get angry... No-one has the same motivations for fishing/hunting as I do or anyone else does. We all do it for our own reasons, regardless of how similar those reasons are... I regularly see dudes getting ripped to shreds on facebook cos they've got a bin of half a dozen kingis, maybe 15-20 snapper and a bunch of kahawai... sure, I wouldn't/don't take nearly as much, but, I take based on my personal situation... I'm feeding for 2 and am privileged to be able to get out regularly, and as such I only need to take enough for a week or two... the dudes on that boat might be splitting the catch between half a dozen households... yet others might be feeding much bigger families and might only be able to get out once or twice a year... over the course of a year I'm probably taking more than some dude who goes out once and catches his limit of blue cod and posts a photo on facebook (I wouldn't post those kinds of photos on FB for that specific reason, but that's ones prerogative. Additionally, I consider myself in a somewhat privileged position where I'd still be able to buy groceries/survive if I didn't hunt/fish. I do fish and hunt cos I love it, and because it helps me feed myself and my family. But it's important to remember that people in other positions might hunt/fish more out of a position of necessity than desire...

Some guys love trophies, some are just out to feed their families, some just love chasing the photo... some hunt public land, some private, some fish off boats, others off the beach... In my opinion, none are necessarily any lesser hunters/gatherers than others. That being said, I'm specifically talking about these activities in regards to NZ- I'm not anti-hunting internationally, but think things need to be looked at in their own right, and those deserve their own discussion. I'm generally of the opinion that so long as people are sticking within the laws and catch limits then I'm not in a position to judge their motivations for doing what they do... I might have opinions about the rules themselves (ie. I was stoked to see the ban on pāua in the East Otago Taiāpure recently extended to the whole area and I think that was overdue, and would love to see other restrictions enacted in other areas, but that requires it's own due process), so ultimately as long as one is obeying the legal rules then who am I to judge! I think we should be encouraging as many people to get out there doing it as possible in order keep hunting and fishing recognised as a way of life for all sorts of Kiwis.

Its such a vague word, including common usage unrelated to the attempt to kill an animal, that personally I think that if someone thinks they are a hunter or that if someone else describes them so then thats good enough.
Plenty of other words out there for the ethical behaviour that I would like to see more of from hunters

Years ago I met a guy in the Pureora Forest pushing himself around in a wheelchair with his rifle across his knees and he was about 5 km from camp...he could walk but only just as he had busted ankles...I thought he was fairly dedicated to his sport of hunting.

What makes a hunter? Hmmm. I hunt for the freezer (try to be self sufficient-ish) so mostly hunt goats. They are easy to get, tasty and when it comes to dollars spent per kg of meat in the freezer they are the best, most practical wild meat supply. Now I have more free time (not meaning lockdown, just that my life circumstances have changed) I will hunt more deer down Wanganui.

I hate the macho element that hunting brings out in a percentage of hunters. I cop a heap of "What are you hunting kid's stuff for? You should be hunting deer/pigs" etc etc etc. A bit like the macho rugby bollocks I had to put up with as a teen when i got bored with rugby (players) and decided to go hunting instead.

A typical example; "What a poof! We were on the piss last night after rugby. F*** my stomach muscles are sore today (Monday at work) from spewing all Sunday. I suppose you were sitting on your arse all weekend?" Or; "You f***ing think you're a stickman or something?" and then counter their argument by calling you "gay" type bullshit comments.....

It never worried me I'd just laugh at them. But could see how it would get to other 17-year olds... I'd just reply "Nah, hunted all of the days and spent the nights with my girlfriend. Better than playing "soggy weetbix" in the changing rooms"..... That always went down well......

But it does always surprise me how many macho bullshit "you're not a hunter" comments I get. Not from good hunters; just the blow arse. macho types who give our sport a bad name.... My mates give me a bit of stick; but we know each other well and it's just banter. You know; the old "the better you like someone the more shit you can give them!"

Interestingly; I'm really surprised by the amount of women who have asked me to take them for a hunt. They've never experienced it and hate all the "paint their face with blood after the first kill" bollocks they see and hear. They want someone to show them what hunting is like without the macho bullshit that they hate....

So am I a hunter? I think yes. Some say no because I mostly hunt goats. But do I care? Not on your life!

Originally Posted by bumblefoot

What makes a hunter? Hmmm. I hunt for the freezer (try to be self sufficient-ish) so mostly hunt goats. They are easy to get, tasty and when it comes to dollars spent per kg of meat in the freezer they are the best, most practical wild meat supply. Now I have more free time (not meaning lockdown, just that my life circumstances have changed) I will hunt more deer down Wanganui.

I hate the macho element that hunting brings out in a percentage of hunters. I cop a heap of "What are you hunting kid's stuff for? You should be hunting deer/pigs" etc etc etc. A bit like the macho rugby bollocks I had to put up with as a teen when i got bored with rugby (players) and decided to go hunting instead.

A typical example; "What a poof! We were on the piss last night after rugby. F*** my stomach muscles are sore today (Monday at work) from spewing all Sunday. I suppose you were sitting on your arse all weekend?" Or; "You f***ing think you're a stickman or something?" and then counter their argument by calling you "gay" type bullshit comments.....

It never worried me I'd just laugh at them. But could see how it would get to other 17-year olds... I'd just reply "Nah, hunted all of the days and spent the nights with my girlfriend. Better than playing "soggy weetbix" in the changing rooms"..... That always went down well......

But it does always surprise me how many macho bullshit "you're not a hunter" comments I get. Not from good hunters; just the blow arse. macho types who give our sport a bad name.... My mates give me a bit of stick; but we know each other well and it's just banter. You know; the old "the better you like someone the more shit you can give them!"

Interestingly; I'm really surprised by the amount of women who have asked me to take them for a hunt. They've never experienced it and hate all the "paint their face with blood after the first kill" bollocks they see and hear. They want someone to show them what hunting is like without the macho bullshit that they hate....

So am I a hunter? I think yes. Some say no because I mostly hunt goats. But do I care? Not on your life!

I think there's a case to be made that to become a true hunter is to leave the macho, egotistical stuff behind.

great post bumblefoot.......there is an add that plays during the NZ Hunter adventures tv show each week that really pisses me off as it shows up that "macho" thing better than most..... guy in shorts boring a post hole ,then goes off for a hunt and shoots a deer...which he backpacks out while his mate rides one horse and leads the other....ummmmm HEEEEELLOOOO anyone home???? carry your deer on the horse,if you cant bear blood on your saddle tie it off and drag it...you wont get meat dirty if you drag it head first..... if your horse wont let you do either of these things its might be better off as dog tucker.....
the glory photo with young person bent over underneath a big pig!!!!grrrr pure macho B.S. and it sets them up for a world of pain when they get older....got to carry it out whole,yet you get home and chuck the head away,that something like 10% of its weight. caarying a deer out as a backpack has been around since the meat recovery era....guys who did it then are bent and broken now...it was silly good money so it happened....now you only want the meat so why bother???? if its close to wagon in open country,using a carry belt and having carcase across your lower back/kidney area is so much easier on the body ,safer and a hell of a lot easier to get out from underneath if you arse up.
bringing home the bacon....give me a sow under 100lb or a boar under 89lbs anyday......far better eating than a big old tusker (dont get me wrong I eat them too) and a heck of alot easier to carry home.

It's almost impossible to define, everyone has an opinion on it. I got admonished by a Kiwi "hunter" because my history of hunting is shooting pigs and foxes on the Hay Plains in NSW - pure pest control on some real flat land, where as his method was to glass and shoot. He is also a Fudd that called me a gun-nut because I dared to own a 10/22.
If you like hunting, call yourself a hunter. But like everything in life, don't be a dickhead.

I think that the qualities of a true hunter are intrinsic rather than extrinsic. Its the stuff you can't see that is important.

Empathy for the quarry - you won't have that if you don't have it for your fellow man.

Unselfishness - putting others' first and taking delight from others' success and supporting them when they fall or fail.

Humility - Confidence without arrogance

Strength and courage - mental strength, not physical strength. Courage to keep going. Courage is fear walking.

Perspective - able to see all aspects of hunting and appreciate them. Able to approach hunting from many angles. Able to see the bigger picture.

Self awareness - and ability to reflect during the hunt and after the hunt.

And as for the things that we can see...Actions aligned with the above personal values.

I guess it just illustrates that we are all probably work in progress.

Thanks for putting this topic up Muzz.

@Micky Duck The worst case I saw of macho hunter bullshit was when I was a kid. I was at a farm with my pigdog in the back of my car when the farmer looked at my dog, told me she was too fat and that dogs had to be skinny to hunt. My dog was in good nick; not over-fat at all.

He was of the a dog must be skinny (his were malnourished) and mean variety. His were bloody agro, whereas my girl was bombproof with anyone. He also believed that you shouldn't have your dog's rips sewn up because the "scars make them look cool".... FFS! His dogs were so skinny that they would tire out quickly on a hunt and more than likely find a dead possum or kill a goat for a feed.

And they way those dogs cowered around him wasn't nice to see......