Thread: Whataroa kea

Originally Posted by Quest

Nature should not be controlled with poisons.

True..and poisons should not be handled by idiots.

Could it just be that ZIP and DOC actually know what they are doing and what the risks are, and will do all they can to ensure that the best environmental outcome will be achieved?

Its pretty easy to type reactionary comments on here and hope for the worst. Its more difficult to be objective and hope for the best.

It’s a gamble. “Best environmental outcome” is right up there with “Net benefit”: unmeasurable of course.
The tagged kea ARE measurable though so fingers crossed they are ok - and all the other untagged uncounted ones.
I’m sure ZIP and DOC very much don’t want to kill kea, Equally with poison drops we know they sometimes do, they average between 12-13% per drop from previous drops where they actually tagged, mostly they don’t count, sometimes they kill en masse ( and blame human interaction, never mind prefeeding them or shooting animals for them)
I’ve not seen a single post hoping for the worst, this just looks shabby.

Originally Posted by ethos

It’s a gamble. “Best environmental outcome” is right up there with “Net benefit”: unmeasurable of course.
The tagged kea ARE measurable though so fingers crossed they are ok - and all the other untagged uncounted ones.
I’m sure ZIP and DOC very much don’t want to kill kea, Equally with poison drops we know they sometimes do, they average between 12-13% per drop from previous drops where they actually tagged, mostly they don’t count, sometimes they kill en masse ( and blame human interaction, never mind prefeeding them or shooting animals for them)
I’ve not seen a single post hoping for the worst, this just looks shabby.

I agree its shabby theme, but its a theme that exists none the less. I agree with the rest of your post although I'm not aware of Kea being killed en masse and DOC blaming human interaction?

As far as en masse : 7 of the 9 tagged birds died of 1080 at North Okarito 2011 during that study.
The blaming human interaction was the Fox Franz kea deaths in 2008 I think or maybe Otira deaths 2013 some press release or other, it sounded like bullshit anyway.
This article was as close to the truth as it is possible to find, its DoCs researchers internal communication saying kea benefit is “uncertain” from poison, read the whole thing, it’s quite different from the PR that gets officially released https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/...ions-uncertain

“They said it was not advisable to expose nationally critical or endangered birds to aerial 1080 baiting unless evidence showed the birds did not consume non-toxic baits.”

So no, DoC clearly don’t know what they are doing when they are not taking their own advice
Roll the dice.

Interesting. Well, they are taking their own advice in so much as they are using a couple different mitigation methods that to my knowledge were not considered in 2016. (baiting and pre-feeding repellent). I'm happy to sit on my hands and wait and see what the outcome of this ZIP operation is. I expect it will be something of a watershed in one way or another. But I will willingly put my hands up if it goes pear shape.

We won’t hold you personally responsible Tahr
Let’s hope no deaths and we can all be happy- problem being that no deaths this time doesn’t mean the same next time it’s such a bodged unscientific gamble.

I would like to see bycatch research done by an independent body, not those that have a vested interest in covering their ass to continue to push their agenda. I don't believe a word that anyone from either of those organisations say. Fingers crossed for a good outcome but as @ethos has pointed out it's just a gamble really and can and will go one way or the other, if its a success there's going to be some serious tennis elbow going on from all the patting themselves on the back and we wont hear the end of it as they use it as propaganda for the poison machine, if its a complete fuck up we MIGHT be lucky enough to hear about it, we might get fed some bullshit and told it was a success anyhow, who knows, the only thing that is known, and proven, is that nothing is beyond a lot of those in the DOC organisation

yip shooting as a means of control doesnt have a 100% sucess rate either as far as non target species goes...any one for a greeny feathered pukeko stew???
fingers crossed that somehow this works without killing the kea....... what would be the logistical probability of prefedding them to get them into localised area then capturing them in cage traps or mist nets and keeping them contained for say 3 weeks untill drop has been and finished...then been washed out...ok make that 3 months..then releasing them again????

I don't know what your worried about its called by catch. Who is going to be concerned with the death of a few Kea if they can kill kiwis and nothing is done about it. The bottom line is DOC is a law unto it self and they are answerable to no one.

Originally Posted by nelpop

I don't know what your worried about its called by catch. Who is going to be concerned with the death of a few Kea if they can kill kiwis and nothing is done about it. The bottom line is DOC is a law unto it self and they are answerable to no one.

Nobody is worried about "a few kea" they're worried about a major decline in an already fragile population. As for your other comment, Kea and kiwi have existed since Adam was a boy (probably much longer actually..) so I doubt that Kea killing kiwi is a major concern

Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

I would like to see bycatch research done by an independent body, not those that have a vested interest in covering their ass to continue to push their agenda. I don't believe a word that anyone from either of those organisations say. Fingers crossed for a good outcome but as @ethos has pointed out it's just a gamble really and can and will go one way or the other, if its a success there's going to be some serious tennis elbow going on from all the patting themselves on the back and we wont hear the end of it as they use it as propaganda for the poison machine, if its a complete fuck up we MIGHT be lucky enough to hear about it, we might get fed some bullshit and told it was a success anyhow, who knows, the only thing that is known, and proven, is that nothing is beyond a lot of those in the DOC organisation

Totally agree with what you say, they have long lost any respect from many. Only those that truly believe in what they do etc hold any respect and will
somehow defend them to the bitter end,they are yet to wake up.

This one got shot in the head by a net gun.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/105...icated-minders

Here you are Tahr the bollocks about human contact/1080:
Kemp on kea deaths 2008- 2015 “ The data strongly indicates that kea living in the mountains surrounding populated or high visitor areas are at higher risk of 1080 poisoning due to greater exposure to human activity and food.”
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=11749165
So you see it’s our fault DoC are poisoning the kea. All that human contact eh, so let’s give them more human interference and shoot some animals to feed them, drop pre feed baits and then 1080 poison, as specifically recommended against by their own scientists (quote in my post above about not dropping poison if endangered birds eat pre feed, from their lead kea scientists)

I believe the reason given for kea deaths at North Okarito was that the bush was very open or some such complete bullshit.

Kea are naturally inquisitive, they play with and eat random stuff, they scavenge and eat organs from dead animals, unfortunately that makes them prone to poisoning, primary and secondary.
That won’t stop DoC PR very obviously trying to fit the science to their narrative.

Originally Posted by outdoorlad

This one got shot in the head by a net gun.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/105...icated-minders

Was surprised that guy made it. Maximum respect to the Queenstown vet who stabilised the patient and is the unsung hero in that story IMO.