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It was windy. I had to find it with the dog and shoot it again (yesterday).
Where did the first bullet go?? What do you think?
I was aiming off a red dot for elevation that you cant see, so the the shot was lower than the cross hairs
Barnes 100grn, 257R
https://youtu.be/lDWgcbPcZy4
It seem to be holding it's right hind leg a bit funny so somewhere around the back end?
Sounds a bit windy.
You recoiled up to the left...just under backstrap in the thin lungs perhaps??? It did the wobble backwards thing so APPEARS to have taken the hit.
I mostly agree. Definitely a hit as the deer did that quick wee stumble. My guess is quite forward, but under the spine and maybe clipping top of the lungs, as MD says. Not quite enough shock to drop the deer, but close.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
So I went frame by frame on it, I don't think I can actually see the hit anywhere on the animal before the recoil wins. Obvious that it got it somewhere fairly well, but as you suggest not well enough to put it down. Probably the only way to know for sure is a post mortem and let us know. I'm assuming you've done this though if you caught up with it with the dog?
I will probably never know.
Bella found it laying down right where it went out of sight. Quite a bit of dark red blood. It jumped up and ran and then stood, I didn't get a shot and it ran again. 20 yards and Bella found it again and I got 2 quick shots at it. One broadside and one going away. Then to complete the cock-up I had to cut its throat.
It had a high shoulder shot that didn't go through it and one through its back leg (but I cant for the life of me remember which one). I gave the shoulders and the good hind leg away - Ive rung the guy to let me know what hind leg it was :). There wasn't any blood on its coat anywhere. If I had hit it in the shoulder at 15 yards I would have expected the Barnes to go right through but it didn't, so its all a bit of a mystery.
All in all shit shooting.
Oh maybe not..that's the sticky with monos,up close you get all the possible expansion.if it didn't go right through up close I would expect completely peeled back projectiles,if it didn't go right through at distance I would expect it hit something really solid to stop it as it won't have mushroomed much at all. From the very few monos I've recovered they do behave very predictably.
You allowed a bad day every now n then bud.you n Bella did your job n followed up n finished it...some days Pooh's n wees just happen.
Just shows everyone even with vast knowledge and experience will have a balls up from time to time weither it being, shooter, or bullet failure sometimes weird shit happens
There appears to be a mark that may be an exit wound high on the off side behind the ribs.
Goes to show what pressure will do - an old mate had come with me and I really really wanted to have one when I got back to the truck.Quote:
Originally Posted by 199p
I stopped using that bullet after a run of needing two shots to kill Tahr with my 2506 - not a problem I've had before or since. Shit pill for me in that weight and in that cartridge and calibre.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
From what I can see, Left rear leg is not allowing deer to pivot and is stiff.
Ok. Thats useful. These are the non tipped ones. They are fantastically accurate on paper.Quote:
Originally Posted by 257weatherby
Yeah, looking like thats where it was hit.Quote:
Originally Posted by whanahuia
Dark red would most likely be veinous blood, or blood returning to the lungs which for me isn't a lung hit in the vital exchange area anyway. Most likely it would be gut/organs and this would seem to be supported by the awkward arched back stance as the animal went to move away and also by the fact that it didn't go far but sat down virtually straight away in cover, but with no blood on the coat anywhere - well that is a mystery. If it was a rear leg I would have thought it wouldn't have sat so quickly????Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
And you say shit shooting - but the animal didn't go far and remained anchored if not dropped cleanly. Something didn't quite go to plan, that's for sure but looking at the positive on it you didn't clip it in a kneecap or take the bottom jaw off or something stupid like that which results in a non-fatal wound but a lost animal that basically starves to death! Sometimes stuff happens, I recall seeing a similar thing where a 150gr .308 cup-and-core pill from a packet of factory ammo blew up on the shoulder of a stag at close range due to the amount of dry wallow mud on it and left a wide but shallow wound that didn't kill or anchor the thing. This is why I've gone to 165gr in the .308 now, wider recommended weight range and reported better SD and penetration ability for the 165gr pill vs the 150's.
Put a few of them NBT in without changing anything else in load...same powder n charge weight,leave seater the same. Bet the terminal result will be vastly different lol. Swings n roundabouts,you can't make omlet without breaking eggs and you can't cleanly anchor deer without smashing legs.
Grab the wrong rifle in your haste, Tahr, Haven't read any stories like this in the .223 thread,:thumbsup:
Looks like it went top of shoulder and into the other leg because it wobbles on that leg as it turns. My son had a similar shot recently but it took front out just above wind pipe. The deer was walking just.
Ask Te Tawa because this is his calibre as well.
The plot thickens. Here is a pic of the undamaged left hind leg (the near rear leg) from my mate. Maybe TeRei is right (and Whanahuia) and the bullet hit right on the aim point and angled right though - that figures from the angle it was on. AND I remember now there was a bit of guts hanging out of her off flank which would have been the exit from the first shot. Which means I probably shot her in the haunch in the trees OR the first shot carried on through the haunch after it exited the flank, and I missed the 2 shots in the trees OR didn't see another hit when I butchered her.
Silly old bugger.
At least Im satisfied now the first shot was on point. Phew
Attachment 262033
Here's the exit. Problem solved. In the high shoulder and out the ham.
Attachment 262048
So what do you think about it?
I think the first shot may gone thrlugh the liver. Ive seen deer shot through the liver just stand a while then collapse.
I think it’s a good demonstration that if copper bullets don’t expand they are not effective, and when they do expand they are still not as effective as fast expanding/frangible cup and core bullets. Regardless of their (solid copper) penetration. The exception being the Hammers because they have a the frangible element of shedding their petals for secondary damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
I don’t think this is caliber specific.
That's about what I think about it. It is nice to shoot a cartridge where you can see the impact and not have to guess too. Looks like the .257R is a bit too much for that at these distances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
What's your impact V?
I think the tipped Barnes expand more reliably. Perhaps the tips help initiate expansion better.
I have not had trouble with "soft" bullets killing, ie lack of penetration(other than obvious varmint bullets used by mistake) but rather from too hard bullets.
Out of interest the worst experience I had on a deer was three wounding shots and a long messy tracking job - was also with a .257 Roberts as it happens, using moderate loads from the traditional old 257 Rob data which was underloaded anyway. Slow hard bullets acting like FMJ and a rattled shooter after things started going bad.
It does concentrate the mind wonderfully when tracking spots of blood at shoulder level on bushes with limited visibility and a cocked rifle.
@gimp 2367 fpsQuote:
Originally Posted by gimp
