Why do people use a guide?

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Originally Posted by Stocky

Same as I Canada our outfit won't take Canadians. The old outfitter took a guy from Manitoba about 40 years ago. To this day his family who have moved to BC hunt the river near our base camp. This makes our meat hunts difficult as you are competing. Luckily the outfitter knows more secrets of the territory but unlike here they can't move areas. I agree its is illectual property theft. I'm surprised you take Aussies. I genuinely think its would be appropriate for non residents of NZ to require a guide on public land. I here a few stories of Aussies and Australians doing some serious damage to Outfitters areas flying in the following season unchapperoned and validating killing young animals with cost of flights.

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The last outfit I was guiding for in Canada has the exact same problems. Even past guides screwing them over.
But any resident Canadian with a tag can hunt their territory. A lot of it requires not only a tag but permission from the resident first nations people. The first nations even have their own proactive rangers. I always get stopped by them and they give me a bit of good humoured ribbing about my accent and go about their day. They are also a good source of info as they like to talk[emoji1787]

It is always a risk using public land but you get a feeling about some clients and can adjust where you go and still get them a good animal. I have spots that have been learned and passed on that I will only take people from further abroad. If they ever show up in them again, so be it.
I will likely put my business to sleep until travel opens up again whenever that may be. I know plenty of others not so fortunate and will likely go bust.
Have a new job in Canada that I am looking forward to but the outfitter there doesn't know where he will stand, facing the same issues as us.
The whole industry as we knew it will change. Just not sure how at this stage.

I also dont think experience matters. Most people I have guided have hunted just as long or longer than I have. I learn stuff off them as much as they may me.
I got humbled by a client last year that I insisted to allow me to recover the animal alone because of how dangerous it was. He ended up tagging along and must have thought I was a complete idiot because I fell over 50 times in the steep deep snow. He didnt slip once.
Get back to camp and he proceeded to show me photos of all the technical mountain climbing he has done and still does.


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Originally Posted by 257weatherby

I can see guiding local (regionally adjacent) kiwis on public land could create the same problem that you have taking an inexperienced would be hunter out to an area you know that holds animals -I have been burned a couple of times, discovering they have gone back with or told their mates, and a reliable area has been cleaned out by a whole mob of guns.

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@257weatherby Same with private land. That's why I gave up pighunting. Too hard to find people to hunt with who wouldn't ring the farmer the following week to say that I told them to call; or just sneak out and poach it......

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Originally Posted by bumblefoot

@257weatherby Same with private land. That's why I gave up pighunting. Too hard to find people to hunt with who wouldn't ring the farmer the following week to say that I told them to call; or just sneak out and poach it......

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That behaviour is disgusting IMO As someone that has been taken on private land and public land by people I find it appalling, I would never even think off going back to somewhere I’ve been shown by myself. Then again most of these people end up being long time hunting mates. :)

If I was ever to use a guide it would be for 2 reasons.

Safety.
Local Knowledge.

And if anyone going into an environment they are not familiar with, and have limited or no experience of, cant see the importance of those, they probably should stay at home watching YouTube.

My opinion only.

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Originally Posted by Mr300WSM

That behaviour is disgusting IMO As someone that has been taken on private land and public land by people I find it appalling, I would never even think off going back to somewhere I’ve been shown by myself. Then again most of these people end up being long time hunting mates. :)

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@Mr300WSM Especially when you plan to go hunting but have to call it off. But the person you've taken there a few times goes there hunting anyway. They go out and get their Landrover stuck on the track, go back to the farm and borrow the tractor without asking, try to pull the Landy out and roll the tractor down the hill and into the river..... And I get an irate farmer ringing me that night asking why I said they were allowed to go out......

Or; another doozy..... You bring an acquaintance out for a hunt. He asks if his mate can come too. "Sure" I say. Coming back we stop the wagon and talk to the farmer who is helluva frosty with me compared to usual. I just think that he must've had a barney with the missus or a bad case of man-opause and think nothing of it. I get home and about an hour later get a ring from the farmer absolutely losing his nut with me..... Turn's out the "mate" and a few of his mates had been out there the week earlier rounding up all the cockies wild goats..... That was in the days when a white feral nanny was fetching $600-ish dollars.

I pleaded not guilty to him; because I didn't know anything about it. I apologised profusely and thankfully he calmed down and realised that I was as f***ed off as him. And also thankfully; didn't ban me from the property. I rang my mate up and blew my stack. Turns out he didn't know anything about it either! His "friend" had f***ed us both over.....

I go hunting on a good deer property with a mate. Have done for many years. I know I could get onto the property for a hunt by myself, and my mate has actually told me to. I haven't because even though both parties are fine; it would still feel like asking your mate's missus out on a date! Maybe I'm too old fashioned!

Cant trust anyone these days

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Originally Posted by bumblefoot

@Mr300WSM Especially when you plan to go hunting but have to call it off. But the person you've taken there a few times goes there hunting anyway. They go out and get their Landrover stuck on the track, go back to the farm and borrow the tractor without asking, try to pull the Landy out and roll the tractor down the hill and into the river..... And I get an irate farmer ringing me that night asking why I said they were allowed to go out......

Or; another doozy..... You bring an acquaintance out for a hunt. He asks if his mate can come too. "Sure" I say. Coming back we stop the wagon and talk to the farmer who is helluva frosty with me compared to usual. I just think that he must've had a barney with the missus or a bad case of man-opause and think nothing of it. I get home and about an hour later get a ring from the farmer absolutely losing his nut with me..... Turn's out the "mate" and a few of his mates had been out there the week earlier rounding up all the cockies wild goats..... That was in the days when a white feral nanny was fetching $600-ish dollars.

I pleaded not guilty to him; because I didn't know anything about it. I apologised profusely and thankfully he calmed down and realised that I was as f***ed off as him. And also thankfully; didn't ban me from the property. I rang my mate up and blew my stack. Turns out he didn't know anything about it either! His "friend" had f***ed us both over.....

I go hunting on a good deer property with a mate. Have done for many years. I know I could get onto the property for a hunt by myself, and my mate has actually told me to. I haven't because even though both parties are fine; it would still feel like asking your mate's missus out on a date! Maybe I'm too old fashioned!

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First story is a doozy[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]
I have private land access I wouldnt have if it wasnt for mates. Always asked for their blessing or it has been suggested by them to go.
I have had run ins with land owners family that didnt know or wanna know why or how we were there. That gets uncomfortable until you get a word in[emoji16]


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I think it depends what you want to get out of it. I too started hunting in the early 80's, sometimes we'd only get one deer a year (and that from bloody near every other weekend out) but it sure as hell taught me to value game.

The other thing it taught me was to value our public lands and the access and opportunities we enjoy from them.

Maybe I'm a bit simple but I think most hunters are far too selfish. I wouldn't dream of going back to a spot that someone else had shown me without them (or in consultation with them). An occasional forum poster took me to an absolutely primo spot, and we've been back there a few times since. Plenty of people have asked me for the name of the Runholder and/or how to approach him but the answer is NO.

You can only shoot an animal once and one of my greatest pleasures is sharing our back country and our hunting with anyone keen to tag along and make a contribution (not in $$, good company and conversation is fine with me). It irks me when I see people being dissuaded from public land hunting here - its a public resource, and it doesn't hurt to share it. If someone wants to hang up a shingle and guide, they too are welcome, but if you use a public resource for pecuniary gain then you should rightfully expect to pay for that (concession fees etc). The converse applies and the sneaky pricks who charge for guiding without a concession should be potted - its the same as poaching.

After all that, guiding has been a part of NZ hunting from the very very beginning, the Murrell's at Manapouri being outstanding examples of guides and Lord Belper the same with taking trophies using a guide. If you want to put in the effort and learn the hard way, thats good, if you value your time or have some other factor at play and want to use a guide that's fine with me.

It just depends on what you want from your hunting. I enjoy taking people that have never hunted out and getting them into it, I’ve about half a dozen people I’ve got into hunting and gone on to get their FAL. They all go hunting with other people as well but I can trust them to not go to the places we go..... as for guided hunting I think I would possibly use a guide. I’ve always wanted to shoot A nice bull tahr and a fallow buck if it seems like I’m going to get to long in the tooth before this would happen, I would seriously think about it they are just not animals I’ve had success with. But for now I’ll keep trying

You must be bored bro, opened a can of worms and hit a few nerves aswell :thumbsup:

It's an interesting one, each to there own I guess. Some guys want a guide to make the hunt easy for genuine reasons, while others want instant gratification and reward. Every individual circumstance is different, but personally I wouldn't pay for a guide and learnt to hunt the hard way hunting sika in the Kaimanawas at 16, while all my mates were partying. It took me around 20 days Bush stalking before one stood still long enough for me to pull the trigger. I think this helped shape my perspective towards hunting.

One thing I have learnt over the years taking guys hunting is that most don't have a strong drive for the hunt and backcountry. I've had guys get homesick after walking in for 5 hours, had guys broken and negative towards hunting after 1 unsuccesful day in the hills, had others that think they are deserved of a trophy stag because they have done a weeks hunting so have "put in the time and deserve it" :ORLY:. I normally just bite my tongue and never invite these guys again, hence why I only hunt with 3 or 4 others. These are the guys that want to hunt the same way as me with the same ethics and morals.

I'm not saying it's wrong to pay for a guided hunt but for me the thought of it doesn't give me any satisfaction, the head on the wall that I've put heart and sole into is the one that will always mean the most. I guess everyone has a different amount of passion for the sport and the blood sweat and tears each person can or is willing to invest in the reward differs.

thats a great generalisation of hunting buddies.....very few cut the mustard and stay the distance over the years....some just dont have the heart for it,others too busy and have higher prioraties....I hunt with 4 main people and thats maybe four times each per year...my dog is the only constant in that...and she also helps weed out the others...if she doesnt like them,they dont come again,if they didnt get nipped in first place,she good judge of character LOL.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Different strokes for different folks.

Sika are a good example - the best heads are on the front country and a lot of it is impossible to access. Some people hunt the Kawekas their whole life and never get a decent head (like me - too focussed on meat) and in the end think "bugger it, I will pay the money and have one last flurry". Its only my foolish pride that has stopped me from doing it.

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Go and do it. A trip to Ngamatea during the rut has been a highlight for me. It had nothing to do with the trophy either. Amazing seeing free range sika like that. I’d go again.