Thread: WTF. B FA LEFT SOON.

Originally Posted by Yesmate

you need to get the rifle out more often.id be peeling them out or getting people in to peel them out real fast if those numbers were happening to me, why are you letting this slide?

Same old farm problem, periodic problems followed by long time of no deer or goats. Don't notice the damage until it's been going on a few weeks. 10-15 reds at a time, or 20-30 goats, this is why I got E cat. Every time I've had friends in for a shoot we've never seen a single deer, and I've spent many many hours looking for them. Usually only see them when not expecting to and no rifle. We're only a small farm in a fairly big roam range of the deer, and the goats are usually on the beach hills about 5km away.


HBRC Biosecurity guys say the feral deer population is at record high.

Lol. Must be different to the south island then, with some of the thick shit I've found myself in while trying to avoid it. @joelhenton

Originally Posted by Allizdog

Lol. Must be different to the south island then, with some of the thick shit I've found myself in while trying to avoid it.

I watched Hunting Aotearoa a couple of night back and saw the bush they were in and thought ‘wow, there’s deer in there’? And likewise the Red Stag program- really open bush.
Both in the South Island - but not where I hunt!

Yeah I hear ya. The places I usually hunt you are better off watching the bush edges or walking up one of the rivers which has paid off.

But I learnt that the hard way.

The mamaku would be probably invalided by deer, as the access points are not great .
Targeting the females would greatly reduce the numbers.
The confinement did not help this year.

Was there not a program in place where farmers would indicate that they needed some deer culled on their property and would be put in liaison with hunters looking to shoot deer?

Originally Posted by Allizdog

Lol. Must be different to the south island then, with some of the thick shit I've found myself in while trying to avoid it. @joelhenton

Hi Allizdog,

There is plenty of thick bush all over New Zealand, but remember that thick bush doesn't necessarily mean it's all comprised of palatable plant species. Deer are quite selective browsers that concentrate their feeding on plant species that are palatable, the likes of broadleaf (Griselinia littoralis), Coprosma grandifolia, lancewood (Pseudopanax crassifolius), kamahi (Weinmannia racemosa), mahoe (Melicytus ramiflorus), putaputaweta (Carpodetus serratus), five finger (Pseudopanax arboreus), to name but a few of the woody trees. And they will consume these at all stages of the plants life, seedlings, saplings, and mature trees (certainly up to browsing height). The palatables become fewer, while the non-palatables increase in abundance. Those open areas of bush sure are nice to walk around in, but it's not the signs of a healthy forest.

Regards,
Joel

Originally Posted by joelhenton

Hi Allizdog,

There is plenty of thick bush all over New Zealand, but remember that thick bush doesn't necessarily mean it's all comprised of palatable plant species. Deer are quite selective browsers that concentrate their feeding on plant species that are palatable, the likes of broadleaf (Griselinia littoralis), Coprosma grandifolia, lancewood (Pseudopanax crassifolius), kamahi (Weinmannia racemosa), mahoe (Melicytus ramiflorus), putaputaweta (Carpodetus serrated), five finger (Pseudopanax arboretum), to name but a few of the woody trees. And they will consume these at all stages of the plants life, seedlings, saplings, and mature trees. The palatables become fewer, while the non-palatables increase in abundance.

Regards,
Joel

Karaka seedlings are a good indicator plant here, they come up in huge numbers almost forming a ground cover, and you can see the damage to seedlings easily when deer or goats first show up. When the karaka seedlings are getting low, the deer and/or goat numbers are high. They also love nikau, I hand sowed many thousands of seeds before the deer arrived, had thousands of them up to about 1m high, almost all gone now.

Totally agree @joelhenton. Just saying hunting the bush in the area I hunt is not as conducive as hunting the more open places in the same area because of the thickness of the bush. That's where the palatable for deer thing comes in.

Originally Posted by joelhenton

Hi Allizdog,

There is plenty of thick bush all over New Zealand, but remember that thick bush doesn't necessarily mean it's all comprised of palatable plant species. Deer are quite selective browsers that concentrate their feeding on plant species that are palatable, the likes of broadleaf (Griselinia littoralis), Coprosma grandifolia, lancewood (Pseudopanax crassifolius), kamahi (Weinmannia racemosa), mahoe (Melicytus ramiflorus), putaputaweta (Carpodetus serrated), five finger (Pseudopanax arboretum), to name but a few of the woody trees. And they will consume these at all stages of the plants life, seedlings, saplings, and mature trees. The palatables become fewer, while the non-palatables increase in abundance. Those open areas of bush sure are nice to walk around in, but it's not the signs of a healthy forest.

Regards,
Joel

GRISELINIA anyone

Those who were ambivalent regarding the tahr cull(s) should take note. Tahr were the thin end of the wedge. Deer, tahr, trout and salmon will be in the crosshairs next.

Greens need to fu##ed off in the election and pressure put on Labour to stop this fundamentalist lunacy. Labour is going to win the election at a canter, which will consign Greens and Sage to the scrap heap where they belong, but Labour will have a stronger mandate than ever.

Get on to your Labour MPs and candidates and tell them how pissed off you are and will not vote for them unless they challenge what’s going on (as I have). Or just do nothing and watch our hunting lifestyle and future be destroyed in pursuit of some unachievable utopia for the greenies.

There are too many deer in so many places. That’s pretty obvious, and yes we as hunters play a part in managing them but that part is not big enough. Hunters simply do not shoot enough deer. There’s a few reasons for this such as access which has been mentioned like private property, landlocked reserves and remote public areas etc. Another is the fact so many hunters go out to target stags and leave the hinds and lastly we just don’t actually shoot enough in general, particularly hinds. Anyone who thinks we can continue the way we are is kidding themselves. The issue we face is getting a palatable well rounded solution for the ongoing management of our wild herds. Something that strikes a good balance between hunters mentality on what to shoot, access to areas for hunters to control numbers and then most likely a commercial component that then does the fine tuning but with goals that work for everyone. We need numbers that strike the ultimate balance with the ecosystem they are living in so the deer are healthy and provide good hunting whilst the environment around them is healthy too. Anyone who hasn’t listened to the podcast by the educated hunter with Cam Speedy needs to have a listen and get a bit more educated on the subject. If done right we can setup something good for the future. It will take hunters getting educated and onboard though rather then referring to the defence “entitled” attitude so often seen. It needs to be done, what we all need to worry about is making sure it’s done right. That is a whole other topic in itself and is the concern IMO.

Are there too many deer in many areas? Yes! Are there not very many in some areas? Yes. Is there too much emphasis on shooting stags by all concerned and not enough on leaving stags to grow to a decent age? Yes. Are not enough hinds shot per stag? Correct. Are there many hunters actually effectively hunting the bush year round? Hell no. Are we overdue for a coordinated, collaborative, science based approach to manage numbers proactively and in line with the environmental carrying capacity area by area? Yes, absolutely! Will everyone's view on what that number per area is vary significantly? Absolutely. Do I hold out any hope of all government officials being reasonable and inclusive to the point that everyone's concerns are properly looked after? No. Do I hold out any hope that some hunters wont be ignorant dicks who really don't understand what is at stake outside of their wish of hunting a deer behind every tree area? Nope. So what do I want? I want a quality, sustainable hunting experience where the deer numbers are in balance with the environment I am hunting in, where I am bombarded by native taonga while I do, where the deer I hunt are healthy and there are enough to at least have a chance if I hunt right and where our hunting heritage is long term and protected, just like the environment we hunt in. When the decision made for so many has everyone from all sides a little bit pissed off, I call that a well balanced decision. Unfortunately often those in power think it is balanced when the group they personally disagree with is pissed off but not them. When everyone looks after everyone, then everyone wins. Sometimes the decision makers need to be reminded of that though.

The number of deer can be greatly reduced by facilitating access to remote places of bush or forest.
Creating new access tracks for exemple.
Issuing special permits to allow the spotlighting of hinds on public land.

I know these radical ideas are out of the common ideas we have of hunting and in a way are extreme measures, but every year that pass by and actions are not taken to reduce the number of deer, the numbers are actually increasing, and eventually Doc and/or the green will take the decision of eradicating a good chunk of our animals with 1080 or shooting them like they did for thar.

I dont see that there are 'too many' deer in Canterbury. I know for a fact that each spring the Wallis's fly through all the RHA Waro areas in the Rakaia and North Ashburton and knock the deer right back. Bill Hales shoots the rest.
I have seen a lot more deer overseas than Canterbury, Fallow in South Canty would be the exception.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

I dont see that there are 'too many' deer in Canterbury. I know for a fact that each spring the Wallis's fly through all the RHA Waro areas in the Rakaia and North Ashburton and knock the deer right back. Bill Hales shoots the rest.
I have seen a lot more deer overseas than Canterbury, Fallow in South Canty would be the exception.

The over population definitely doesn’t apply to everywhere. Where places like Canturbury could get benefit from a management plan for the future would see things like a cap on the amount that can be shot by helicopter per area so you maintain the right number of healthy animals for their environment and then actually determine what they are allowed to shoot as part of those numbers. Such as no stags, but hinds as an example etc. A FWF type model for example. A solution that maintains commercial interest whilst also benefiting the recreational interest.