Just found this on FB deer stalking group.. Is this for real? NZ has been taken over by a green dictatorship with no brains or brakes. Anybody know what is happening if this is correct.?
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Just found this on FB deer stalking group.. Is this for real? NZ has been taken over by a green dictatorship with no brains or brakes. Anybody know what is happening if this is correct.?
The green party is an introduced species.
Not good.
Hmm - I feel some OIA requests coming on, this needs smoking out . . . .
Rest of the item not shown in the above screenshot...
6. The Department is working with Ngati Porou and Te Whanau a Apanui to co-design
the project in the Raukumara.
7. Given that the distribution of deer and their impacts are not uniform across the country,
a multi-tiered regional based approach working with iwi, landowners, local recreational
hunters and the commercial deer industries such as wild animal recovery operators
and hunting guides will be required.
This allows each plan to be developed for the particular circumstances of each region
and identify the resources to deliver the outcomes required ecologically, culturally and
socially at that place.
8. There are two main themes for consideration which will likely require different
approaches in developing the plans forward;
a) The front country The build-up of wild deer herds on farm/forest margins in
lowlands and front country around bush remnants, covenants and reserves has
been consistently identified as a key issue. Landlocked small reserves and
private forest remnants are considered to have become safe havens for deer
breeding, with ready access to adjacent pasture.
Developing plans for these areas will require a collaborative approach with
Treaty Partners, landowners, regional councils and other stakeholders.
Access for hunters into many of these areas has often been identified as a key
issue to work upon in Stage 2 of the project.
b) The back country On public conservation land in the large forest and national
parks, monitoring of both deer populations and their ecosystem impacts has not
been prioritised in recent years. This absence of data on population trends, size
and ecological impacts reduces the quality of discussions between stakeholders,
and hampers good decision making around solutions in our large National and
Forest Parks in many parts of the country.
Developing cost-effective techniques to assess changes in ungulate abundance
and ecosystem health will be a priority for stage two of the project.
Developing plans for the backcountry areas in each region would be undertaken
with our Treaty Partners and in collaboration with other stakeholders.
9. The Department has no plans to fence small pockets of bush as a solution to the deer
concerns currently identified as that approach would prove costly and ineffective in
achieving any lasting outcomes.
10. A report of the findings will be made available at the end of June and this will form the
basis for the next stage of the project to develop the preferred response. Establishing
the preferred approach is due to be completed by the end of the year.
Section 4 Conservation Act
11. This issue is important to iwi. Their perspectives cover the full spectrum of the
positives and negative values of deer. It will be important to work with each Treaty
Partner to develop specific plans for their rohe or takiwā.
Conclusion
12. We are looking for solutions that will materially improve how deer are managed in the
New Zealand landscape to achieve better ecological, cultural, recreational and
economic outcomes.
13. Front country and backcountry will require different approaches to developing plans in
Stage 2 of the project.
14. The Raukumara project will be a valuable pilot for co-designing large scale forest
restoration projects with Treaty Partners.
15. This work is critical in improving ecosystems and preventing the deer from expanding
into areas such as Northland that remains free of wild deer.
https://ftp.doc.govt.nz/public/folde...lic-papers.pdf
Thanks @cambo for the link in the other thread.
The current minister is hopefully gone in a few weeks, but that probably won't stop this.
IF there is actually an increase in abundance, not letting us hunt in the first round of level 3 didn't help, and is their fault
"The department has no plans" usually means they have already paid the guy who is going to do the work... In my experience.
That's exactly what's happening with the Raukumara's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohawk .308
I'll clean out the Raukumaras for $40,000,000.
I just need a cash advance of $10,000,000 to get started.;) any other bidders.
The perfect solution to deer overabundance?
Semi-automatic rifles!
:P
I don't why they want to turn the clock back to a pre-human massive Avery.Hopefully the Greens will be out this election but DOC is still stacked with twig and tweet fanatics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohawk .308
The money doesn't filter down to the ones who live off the land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohawk .308
If all the things the gubbermint should be spending our money on now , I struggle to see how this even gets a mention
#11 YOU FELLAS MISSING THE POINT HERE......ALL partners..that means what it says...it wasnt just fellas with brown bums who signed the treaty it was a treaty for ALL K1K1s so any approach that just listens to brown bums is rascist plain and simple and needs to be called out as such.
and I use the term brown bums as maori means native...and Im native....yet not considered in same category.
the end is near....the greens wont go, and even if labour win without needing them they taking them in for the next 4 years and Sage will remain in charge of DOC...... from a good sourceQuote:
Originally Posted by Mohawk .308
That made my day....:oQuote:
Originally Posted by deer243
I’m off to bed now my days been ruined.:oh noes:
Why does your source think we have a four year term?Quote:
Originally Posted by deer243
If true its hardly surprising.
What's surprising is the fact that hunters never effectively pre empted such plan by lobbying for a management plan that's favourable to us.
We have the tahr plan which they religiously use a crutch. Maybe stronger protections under the last national govt would have been a good idea.
Crikey i know this is upsetting and disturbing, but sorry anyway mate. I think this ruins everyones day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnwolf
An alternative view... Not looking to upset any of you... But...
Maybe some of you fellas haven’t been hanging around the front country in the Central North Island much recently?
If you have, and you are connected in any way to the rural folk that farm here, then you would know that the deer numbers are a massive problem. Red deer in particular are totally out of control and have far too many small forest blocks in which to hide, landlocked by private land. Hence access to recreational hunters is only possible on a relationship-with-farmer basis.
i.e. These small reserves don’t appear on any DOC maps for a hunting permit as you need an access agreement with the private landowners that surround it.
I’ve sat on top of a local high point and watched the chopper bombing the bush about 1,500m away with 1080. November 2017. Didn’t make the blindest bit of difference to deer numbers in that area. String me up or stretch me on the rack, just saying it like it is. Didn’t touch the pigs either.
There’s fuck all possums though.
I have five or six properties that I visit regularly, a couple several times a year, the others probably once a year. Honestly these days I can’t really call myself a hunter. All I need to do is move my creaking middle-aged body a relatively short distance from my Hilux or quad to a half decent spot the glass from, and I’ll see deer. At all times of the day. It’s gotten so easy that I’ve started to completely change my method of targeting deer to try and get more out of it on a personal level.
This is not good. It is the kind of blatant in your face ungulate proliferation that causes big problems for our primary producers and the health of our forests. I challenge you to go into these smaller native blocks and walk around under the canopy and see for yourselves. There is absolutely diddly squat palatable vegetation left within reach of a mature red deer standing up on its rear legs.
In the document that was posted there is reference to making it easier for hunters to access private land, and these landlocked DOC owned reserves that have no public access. This is the key. And I’m telling you shiny bum city types that really you just need to get out more. Drive a sensible vehicle, wear sensible clothes, be polite and open-minded, ask the right questions. Try and know a little bit about what these guys do and the challenges they face. You will be amazed what opportunities will open up for you, if you put in the hard yards. I know half a dozen cockies with big farms, four with multiple properties in a particular area, who rely upon visiting hunters to do their deer control for them as they either have no interest, or no time. There was a comment on another thread a couple of days ago that farmers are charging for this kind of hunting. Maybe on some properties that is true, especially where the farmer has put money into hunter accommodation and so on, e.g. Riversdale. But in the kind of areas that I go, I’ve never been asked for a single cent contribution, the understanding is that it is my time, my ammunition, my deer to take home with me. But there is a really important aspect to this that you need to remember.
Have something that you can give back. Like if there is a hut for you to stay in, then make a trip there specifically to do some hut maintenance. Rehang some gates. Straighten and re-fix some batons - like not two dozen of them but a whole day’s worth of basic fence maintenance. Take a bag of wire tensioners and staples and an EeziPull and fix up a couple of long run slack fences. Cut some firewood, some scrub, especially around access points or buildings and places where it’s really obvious and appreciated. Not long ago, I dug out the dog shit from under a 12 dog kennel - about 15 years worth I reckon - pressure washed the kennels, rodent proofed the dog food shed, set 10 drainpipe style bait stations, installed simple solar powered LED strip lighting for feeding the dogs at night in winter, and built two wool insulated timber kennels for young pig dogs. Two easy days of work for free come-as-you-are deer hunting.
Anyway, I’ve gotten a bit off topic but the point is that there are way too many deer out there, but you all have more opportunities to get some of them if you know how. And I encourage you to do just that. Whinging about deer control from a distance is in my view completely missing the point. Especially all the way from WA. No offence intended mate.
I kind of agree. Much like the blue assholes need act, the red assholes need the greens. It's easier to blame unpoular policy on a small coalition partner. But if the red assholes win with a clear majority it will be interesting to see if they do include the watermelons. The whole worldwide shift to Police States is worrying. Hearing how common land is getting referred to as either Crown or Conservation estate also worries me. The removal of freedom of speech worries me as well but the most worrying thing is there's not really any better choices.Quote:
Originally Posted by deer243
This isn’t a political issue, yet you fellas are intent on turning it into one.
The majority of the farmers want deer numbers reduced. I’d say the significant majority of them don’t vote for Labour, and definitely not the Greens.
Go out, ask them, talk about it with the people that count, not disaffected internet buddies.
There will always be deer out there.
Always, is a long long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyblown
I reckon a number of you are kidding your selves, there’s no ‘political agenda’ here, the facts speak for them selves; there’s miles too many deer in NZ. The collapse of the recovery industry and a number of other factors have influenced that.
I’m convinced that a Minister of Conservation, regardless of what party they’re from would support the reduction of Tahr, Deer and other pests. The fact that Ms Sage has expressed a personal dislike fir them, in the past is merely coincidental.
1080 is an excellent example of this. No matter what party has been in government it’s use has been consistent.
KFC and Ten Guitars CD time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohawk .308
I've seen the damage even small population of red deer can do, I've lost well over $100,000 worth of tree plantings over the last couple of years.
you need to get the rifle out more often.id be peeling them out or getting people in to peel them out real fast if those numbers were happening to me, why are you letting this slide?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Waimata
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Waimata
Pay for me to come up there for a while cos I’m always where there are no deer. (Mostly)
I've worked in many North Island public conservation land forests over the years, there aren't many that don't show significant ungulate browse. Most have seriously browsed out understoreys, you need to go for a walk in an area that doesn't have ungulate species to really see the difference. You won't see many palatable seedlings and saplings on the ground.
Joel
Same old farm problem, periodic problems followed by long time of no deer or goats. Don't notice the damage until it's been going on a few weeks. 10-15 reds at a time, or 20-30 goats, this is why I got E cat. Every time I've had friends in for a shoot we've never seen a single deer, and I've spent many many hours looking for them. Usually only see them when not expecting to and no rifle. We're only a small farm in a fairly big roam range of the deer, and the goats are usually on the beach hills about 5km away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yesmate
HBRC Biosecurity guys say the feral deer population is at record high.
Lol. Must be different to the south island then, with some of the thick shit I've found myself in while trying to avoid it. @joelhenton
I watched Hunting Aotearoa a couple of night back and saw the bush they were in and thought ‘wow, there’s deer in there’? And likewise the Red Stag program- really open bush.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allizdog
Both in the South Island - but not where I hunt!
Yeah I hear ya. The places I usually hunt you are better off watching the bush edges or walking up one of the rivers which has paid off.
But I learnt that the hard way.:omg:
The mamaku would be probably invalided by deer, as the access points are not great .
Targeting the females would greatly reduce the numbers.
The confinement did not help this year.
Was there not a program in place where farmers would indicate that they needed some deer culled on their property and would be put in liaison with hunters looking to shoot deer?
Hi Allizdog,Quote:
Originally Posted by Allizdog
There is plenty of thick bush all over New Zealand, but remember that thick bush doesn't necessarily mean it's all comprised of palatable plant species. Deer are quite selective browsers that concentrate their feeding on plant species that are palatable, the likes of broadleaf (Griselinia littoralis), Coprosma grandifolia, lancewood (Pseudopanax crassifolius), kamahi (Weinmannia racemosa), mahoe (Melicytus ramiflorus), putaputaweta (Carpodetus serratus), five finger (Pseudopanax arboreus), to name but a few of the woody trees. And they will consume these at all stages of the plants life, seedlings, saplings, and mature trees (certainly up to browsing height). The palatables become fewer, while the non-palatables increase in abundance. Those open areas of bush sure are nice to walk around in, but it's not the signs of a healthy forest.
Regards,
Joel
Karaka seedlings are a good indicator plant here, they come up in huge numbers almost forming a ground cover, and you can see the damage to seedlings easily when deer or goats first show up. When the karaka seedlings are getting low, the deer and/or goat numbers are high. They also love nikau, I hand sowed many thousands of seeds before the deer arrived, had thousands of them up to about 1m high, almost all gone now.Quote:
Originally Posted by joelhenton
Totally agree @joelhenton. Just saying hunting the bush in the area I hunt is not as conducive as hunting the more open places in the same area because of the thickness of the bush. That's where the palatable for deer thing comes in.:thumbsup:
GRISELINIA anyoneAttachment 148474Quote:
Originally Posted by joelhenton
Those who were ambivalent regarding the tahr cull(s) should take note. Tahr were the thin end of the wedge. Deer, tahr, trout and salmon will be in the crosshairs next.
Greens need to fu##ed off in the election and pressure put on Labour to stop this fundamentalist lunacy. Labour is going to win the election at a canter, which will consign Greens and Sage to the scrap heap where they belong, but Labour will have a stronger mandate than ever.
Get on to your Labour MPs and candidates and tell them how pissed off you are and will not vote for them unless they challenge what’s going on (as I have). Or just do nothing and watch our hunting lifestyle and future be destroyed in pursuit of some unachievable utopia for the greenies.
