Thread: X-ray of shot deer

Originally Posted by Average-Lad

What's my personal takeaway? As someone who eats 90% of my protein from wild game I shoot, as does my 4 year old son and partner. I'm going to transition to copper bullets. Any recommendations for 7m08?

I load Barnes 120 TTSX in 7-08 for a few Guys & they are all very happy with them

We use 110 TTSX in both our general purpose Tikka 7-08s these are doing 3400 fps & are devastating

I use Hammer projectiles, Absolutes & HHTs in a few other hunting rifles

The Hammers are more expensive than the Barnes, are way more aggressive & their terminal performance is magnificent

Generally you want light weight for caliber & plenty of velocity

Two disadvantages with the copper projectiles are cost & reduced BC, I'm more than happy with those compromises when balanced against performance on game

Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

I load Barnes 120 TTSX in 7-08 for a few Guys & they are all very happy with them

We use 110 TTSX in both our general purpose Tikka 7-08s these are doing 3400 fps & are devastating

I use Hammer projectiles, Absolutes & HHTs in a few other hunting rifles

The Hammers are more expensive than the Barnes, are way more aggressive & their terminal performance is magnificent

Generally you want light weight for caliber & plenty of velocity

Two disadvantages with the copper projectiles are cost & reduced BC, I'm more than happy with those compromises when balanced against performance on game

The way you load them Greg they're moving and then some. The problem with copper bullets as I've seen a fair bit is when they're used in middling cartridges that are getting 2700 +/- a bit, especially in carbines 14-16". And then targeting the animal the same way as you would with a normal lead bullet. The traditional swaged type can be quite unforgiving with poor expansion. A behind the shoulder rear lung shot for example.

There's so many smart designs out there now, the innovation has been great to see. If you're worried about lead (I'm not) then all you need is a fast twist barrel chambered for long-for-calibre bullets in whatever calibre you like. Send the bullet of choice sensibly fast. Success will follow. And there's no need to argue about it unless a genuine official press statement is made about a review, be in on DOC land or all land or whatever. Happy lead & lead-free hunting.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

The way you load them Greg they're moving and then some. The problem with copper bullets as I've seen a fair bit is when they're used in middling cartridges that are getting 2700 +/- a bit, especially in carbines 14-16". And then targeting the animal the same way as you would with a normal lead bullet. The traditional swaged type can be quite unforgiving with poor expansion. A behind the shoulder rear lung shot for example.

There's so many smart designs out there now, the innovation has been great to see. If you're worried about lead (I'm not) then all you need is a fast twist barrel chambered for long-for-calibre bullets in whatever calibre you like. Send the bullet of choice sensibly fast. Success will follow. And there's no need to argue about it unless a genuine official press statement is made about a review, be in on DOC land or all land or whatever. Happy lead & lead-free hunting.

The biggest problems I see with monos are lack of velocity from short barrels and or poor powder choice & way to heavy for calibre

Generally you need a light projectile, a 7mm 110 in a Barnes generally stays at 105-110 grains so has a retained weight like or better than a 140 cup & core with much less recoil

In this country the 7mm Barnes 140 is ideal in a magnum cartridge not a 7-08, unless you are chasing Wild Bulls

The Hammers are different, they lose their nose into 2-3 grain bits of shrapnel then the base carries on to exit generally

The devastation from this performance needs to be seen to be believed

FWIW if I didn't have an icecream container literally full of loaded 110 TTSX 7-08 rounds I would only be using Hammers in our 7-08s

Damn it! I've just got my 7m08 shooting 0.5MOA 3 round groups with the Winchester Dear Season XP (copper core) and its dropping everything it hits beautifully. Now I've gotta find a copper replacement!

This video I found super interesting when considering the merits of each type of bullet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_oYH_dXGDM takeaways:
- Copper bullets seem to expand better up to 300 yards (or whatever their required velocity is for expansion), beyond that lead was better.
- All bullets perform very similar
- American's didn't seem to realise that hitting the shoulder would cause more shock, expansion and therefore takedown... isn't that obvious?
- There's a point in the video where they don't like the mid gel (body) expansion of the lead core bullets or the fact that they start tumbling. I'd disagree with that point. I know from my Army days we were told 223/5.56mm was intentionally fatal due to the shock of expansion and the mass damage caused by a tumbling bullet.

Originally Posted by Average-Lad


What's my personal takeaway? As someone who eats 90% of my protein from wild game I shoot, as does my 4 year old son and partner. I'm going to transition to copper bullets. Any recommendations for 7m08

In this situation I'd agree. Potentially the dose could be too high for your son especially.

I've also gotta go for an annual health check soon anyway, so I'll ask for a blood test. Sample size of one, but after 2-3 years of eating like this it should be a reliable test result.

Originally Posted by Average-Lad

I've also gotta go for an annual health check soon anyway, so I'll ask for a blood test. Sample size of one, but after 2-3 years of eating like this it should be a reliable test result.

I don't suppose you have a test result yet?
Would be great if you could share the results here.

I'd be interested to see the result. I imagine abt 90% game is waaay above average. It would be interesting if your result are pretty low.

For what it is worth I have done a lot with 130ttsx out of 308, mostly launched at just shy of 3200fps and used at mostly under 200y.
They work pretty good up close at those velocitys.
Since going to a "bush pig" I have given away 200fps and the reduction in "shock" is noticeable. No more stop drop and rolls unless spine shot.
They still expand...and they still die....but not instantly like they used to....
I have a hankering to try 110gr hornady cx as designed for blackout velocity and utube gelatin tests show actual fragmentation at full barrel lenght 308 velocity.

Backcountry hunting podcast have a really good episode on this.

https://exomtngear.com/blogs/podcast/503

@SPEARONZ

Thx the two linked articles were interesting reading.

And from the UK,

Video has link in the information to the proposed new UK lead free ammo regulations

Not sure if anyone sees those vids of the chopper crew in Australia smoking the mobs of pigs with a 308. Am sure the Aussies will think a bit of lead wont go amiss considering their mining industry.

Back when I was a young fella using air rifles all the time I used to carry my lead pellets in my mouth as it was easier to get them than in me pocket. Can’t say it was a good practice to do this but still alive.

Originally Posted by Mooseman

Back when I was a young fella using air rifles all the time I used to carry my lead pellets in my mouth as it was easier to get them than in me pocket. Can’t say it was a good practice to do this but still alive.

Bwaaahaha...... you had to remind me of that didn't you ! I'd completely forgotten about that practice