$1000 bang for buck general purpose scope

I'm looking to put a scope on a .308 which will be my one centrefire rifle to do everything that a rimfire shouldn't. I don't have binos or a rangefinder, the budget simply won't allow for them for another year or so but I do recognise the importance of accurate rangefinding. For shooting in all kinds of bush, and on the tops as well as a spot of long range target I think a 4-14x/4-16x or thereabouts gets the job done, and I like the simplicity of working in Mrad over MOA.

So, what is working reliably in the bush? Set and forget capped adjustments or exposed turrets and dial up? I'm given to understand once you go exposed tacticool knobs things like locking turrets and zero stops cost a bit more but offer less room for mistakes.

Is first focal plane a bit of a wank, because while the subtensions remain accurate at all magnifications you can't really see them at the low end?

Is a BDC reticle any use without a spotting scope?

Is an adjustable parrallax a godsend or just a pain because it's never set in the right spot when you're in a hurry?

I'd like to go illuminated reticle but I recognise that comes at a price point probably outside my budget.

without rangefinder,forget all the fancy knob twiddly bits.....you are still guessing so may as well sight in 3" high at hundy and shoot to estimated 350 or stalk closer.....
buy a good loopy 3x9 or 4x12 and a good set of binos....the binos $300-400 leaves you $6-700 for scope.... long range targets are at known range...so twiddling with knobs can be done with std scope....you just have to write down what you do....or set ring so you remember where zero is,or better still both.

Bang for buck, H&F (name is mud on this forum) were selling Leupold VX-3i 4.5-14x40 CDS Turret for $860 a little while ago. Even at full price, I think it's a good scope. Personally, I don't think parallax adjustment is important for large game at normal distances. A BDC reticle isn't going to be very useful without a rangefinder.

Leupold VX-3i 3.5-10x40 CDS Windplex

I would no worry about paralax unless the scope goes over 10 x magnification.

2 inches high at 100 yard, and you are set for most bush hunting you'l ever do.

Dialup without a range finder is a waste of time. If you are going to be hunting tops, get a range finder.

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Originally Posted by ebf

Leupold VX-3i 3.5-10x40 CDS Windplex

I would no worry about paralax unless the scope goes over 10 x magnification.

2 inches high at 100 yard, and you are set for most bush hunting you'l ever do.

Dialup without a range finder is a waste of time. If you are going to be hunting tops, get a range finder.

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This. About the best bang for buck hunting scope you will find.

No to parralax not important for shooting deer at normal ranges.

The 4-14 are closer to 5x than 4 and are a bit much mag in the Bush imo. 10 power is heaps out to 400m.

Also you can get a perfectly functional and use able rangefinder from aliexpress for about a hundy bucks. Few blokes on here use them.

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Originally Posted by Nick-D

Also you can get a perfectly functional and use able rangefinder from aliexpress for about a hundy bucks. Few blokes on here use them.

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Good point. SNDWay.

Three things: First, good on you for recognising that you have to invest the bucks in getting a good scope .

Second:what's a typical long shot for you?

Third: Google "Maximum Point blank Range", have a read and a think. It might be a help in understanding what you'll really need in a scope.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

without rangefinder,forget all the fancy knob twiddly bits.....you are still guessing so may as well sight in 3" high at hundy and shoot to estimated 350 or stalk closer.....
buy a good loopy 3x9 or 4x12 and a good set of binos....the binos $300-400 leaves you $6-700 for scope.... long range targets are at known range...so twiddling with knobs can be done with std scope....you just have to write down what you do....or set ring so you remember where zero is,or better still both.

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What he said.

When scanning and looking , holding a rifle up and using a scope for long periods is simply a pain. You will find more with a decent set of Binos. As for the scope, Pick up one in the $400-$700 mark and get a reasonable set of Binos.

As mentioned above, setting your scope 2-3 inches high at 100 will see you hitting the engine room of a deer anywhere out to 300 or more without needing a range finder. I use the "clock" method. Picture the "kill zone" on a deer as a 11 inch circle the size of a clock. Aim at the point halfway between the centre and the 12. If you set your scope as mentioned your shot will stay within that clocks circle as long as your aim is good.

Between the muzzle and 120M you will be between your aim (red) spot and the top , 120m-200m you will be between the top and the centre. 200- about 300 you will be between the centre and the bottom. Then you wont need a range finder for a while yet as most of the cheaper ones dont go much further than that.....Or if you can gauge that the animal is less than 200 metres aim at the centre and lift it to the red circle if you feel the shot exceeds 150m as there is a margin of error there for your estimation.

Attachment 134955

I have a Kahles CT 3-9x40 here for sale

$900

A reliable scope with excellent glass

Know your rifle and ammo trajectory and it will work well for the distances you mention

It makes me very nervous to be out hunting, and seeing someone looking at me through their scope rather than binoculars. It has happened a couple of times now, the last time it took alot of self control for me not to go over and wrap his rifle and scope around his head. Don't be a cheap cnut bout it mate.

I use my $100 SNDWay rangefinder for "spotting" on farms and bush. It has a 7x magnification. Obviously, the glass is total crap and low light performance is basically non-existent, but it's better than nothing and I don't want to be spotting with a rifle scope. I will upgrade a some point, but for now, it's OK.

Suggest the following:

Scope ($300 - $400)
Wait and hunt for a second hand one among the likes of Leupold VX2, Bushnell Elite 4200, Weaver Grand Slam. Magnification 3-12x is a good range. I prefer simple capped adjustments in the bush for durability. Adjustable parallax is nice in the open when you have time to set up and adjust, but adds too much complexity in the bush in my opinion.

Binoculars ($300 - $400)
Vortex Diamondback 8x42 is perhaps your best bet at this price point. Broncos in Tauranga has the cheapest deal.

Range finder ($300)
Something like the Nikon Prostaff 7i should be adequate. I got mine from the US for about $280 NZD landed. An Import Permit shouldn't be required as a range finder is not considered to be "part of a firearm".

This way $1000 will cover all the gear you need without making much compromise on performance.

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Originally Posted by ebf

Leupold VX-3i 3.5-10x40 CDS Windplex

I would no worry about paralax unless the scope goes over 10 x magnification.

2 inches high at 100 yard, and you are set for most bush hunting you'l ever do.

Dialup without a range finder is a waste of time. If you are going to be hunting tops, get a range finder.

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Originally Posted by Nick-D

The 4-14 are closer to 5x than 4 and are a bit much mag in the Bush imo. 10 power is heaps out to 400m.

Also you can get a perfectly functional and use able rangefinder from aliexpress for about a hundy bucks. Few blokes on here use them.

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What he said.

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Originally Posted by timattalon

When scanning and looking , holding a rifle up and using a scope for long periods is simply a pain. You will find more with a decent set of Binos. As for the scope, Pick up one in the $400-$700 mark and get a reasonable set of Binos.

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And dodgy as fuck. If I see some dirt bag glassing with a scope Ill call the cops on him... Its dangerous. Its breaches the first rule of always treat the firearm as its loaded. The people you don't see and point the rifle at don't know your not mistaking them for game.

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Originally Posted by kidmac42

It makes me very nervous to be out hunting, and seeing someone looking at me through their scope rather than binoculars. It has happened a couple of times now, the last time it took alot of self control for me not to go over and wrap his rifle and scope around his head. Don't be a cheap cnut bout it mate.

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This this this

Personally for that money I’d look second hand or buy an S-TAC from Reloaders.

I’ve made the mistake of buying cheap optics in the past and instantly regretted it.

Buy the optic you want. Save for the rangefinder you want. Enjoy using your stuff....

But that’s just me.

Vortex daimondback binos 10x42 $380 awesome value for money. SNDWY rangefinder of aliexpress $120 leaves u $500 which will get you a solid vx1 or something better 2nd hand. Zero at 200 yards. Sorted for most situations.

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Originally Posted by Jt89

I'm looking to put a scope on a .308 which will be my one centrefire rifle to do everything that a rimfire shouldn't. I don't have binos or a rangefinder, the budget simply won't allow for them for another year or so but I do recognise the importance of accurate rangefinding. For shooting in all kinds of bush, and on the tops as well as a spot of long range target I think a 4-14x/4-16x or thereabouts gets the job done, and I like the simplicity of working in Mrad over MOA.

You don't need to much on the upper end. While it is nice for targets for hunting 1x zoom for every 100m is more than adequate. I use a Vx3i 3.5-10 CDS at 900ish on gongs /parried without a bit issue. And shooting game that far is not fot someone that hasn't even got binos yet. Also I wouldn't get picky on mrad vs moa when your on a budget. Moa is fairly easy to work out in your head just use yards on the rangefinder. 1 inch for every 100yards is good enough for quick math.

So, what is working reliably in the bush? Set and forget capped adjustments or exposed turrets and dial up? I'm given to understand once you go exposed tacticool knobs things like locking turrets and zero stops cost a bit more but offer less room for mistakes.

It sounds like you want to try shoot at some range so a Turret that it able to be reset to zero is a must. If you use non capped turrets then a zero lock or a locking Turret is great. Bushnell locking Turret system works fairly good in the affordable scope range the engages around the 3-12 or 4-16 can be had sub 500 however reticles not greatly suited for Bush. The CDS system is good just make sure you send off for a Turret in MOA with the zero stop detent.

Is first focal plane a bit of a wank, because while the subtensions remain accurate at all magnifications you can't really see them at the low end?

Yes they suit tactical type situations more to be fair. Not an all round better solution for hunting and are typically found in scopes completely out of your budget.

Is a BDC reticle any use without a spotting scope?

yes they aren't really related? Or do you mean rangefinder?

Is an adjustable parrallax a godsend or just a pain because it's never set in the right spot when you're in a hurry?
If it close enough it's fine. You just set it to 30ish in the Bush. Then in the option tops set it to 100 or 150ish. It's as accurate as. It's more important in precision shooting but proper technique negligates most of parralax error. It's one of the first things I'm happy to give up.
I'd like to go illuminated reticle but I recognise that comes at a price point probably outside my budget.

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My general thoughts are similar to above. You need a scope but if you end up on tops you should be using your binos about 100x more than your scope. A set of 8x32 8x42 or 10x42 vortex diamondbacks are a great deal value for money and lifetime warranty. They are what a lot of guys start with. They can be had in the 3-500 range. Personally I think the 8x32s are the best I have looked through they seem to be the most stable and spot game as well as the 10x42s. Zoom is not always your friend in handheld optics. Hence why spotters need a tripod. I have a set of 10x42 diamond back that are coming back from being replaced after they got dropped down a scree slide. They may be for sale. If not check the second hand section as they do come up for sale cheap.

As for scope you will be fine with 9 or 10 times max magnification. The look at the dials and whether they are useful for dialing down the road. Don't want/need ffp. Don't need adjustable parralax. Moa or mrad work and can be used in a ballistics calculator.

As for a rangefinder watch trademe. They sell cheap regularly or even once you have been here a while longer post in the wanted section and someone will give you a deal on there old set. It is very handy to get one that does horizontal equivalent range as that's what you plug in if you don't use the angle.

Finally what's the rifle going to be? Your better to buy a slightly cheaper rifle and spend it in the scope or binos or rangefinder in my opinion.

I'd go for a fixed 6x42 and separate rangefinder. Get to know your rifle and load and a clear rugged 6x will be all you need. Rugged and clear beat out the whiz-bang gadgets. No electronics also means less to go wrong. If I had the cash, I'd go for this:
https://www.guncity.com/schmidt-bend...30mm-a8-316019 it isn't perfect for close-in stuff though. That is the trade-off. Otherwise a vx3i with CDS is awesome value.

For Binos, the Deltas that Sarvo sells here cannot be beaten. $250 for 10x50 will beat the Vortex and Leupold $1000 models. Just two weekends ago I compared my Swaro EL against a pair of Deltas and Harry and I agreed that the Delta are 95% as good as the Swaros. For a scope in the bush I find the Leupolds have too finer cross hair to get on target quickly. Buy the Kahles that has been offered. You wont believe how good they are in poor light and even in full darkness. You also wont believe how big the field of view is compared to an american scope with the same mag range.

I have a Kahles 3-9 on my 6.5x55 and I won’t be replacing it any time soon , they are a great scope and I’d seriously advise you to consider the one offered earlier.
Twiddling with turrets and range finders is definitely a fun and effective way to shoot animals, but the old fashioned sneak up and shoot them at 250m ( 250 m is actually a long way in low light and unstable shooting position) with a standard caliber rifle zeroed at 200m - 250m is still to go to for most hunters worldwide.
I actually think that binoculars are more important than your scope , but in the instance of first starting out I think Buy the best scope you can afford now and use it to become familiar with your rifle/ scope combination .
Im talking more target shooting than hunting you don’t need binoculars and range finders to shoot targets and you still have a working combo that can be taken for a walk looking for close handy animals.
All the while saving like heck to buy some quality binoculars that will out perform your scope.

Ponder this:
You spend hours looking thru bino's but usually only seconds thru the scope.

(Your eyes will thank you for decent quality binos.) Any reasonable scope wil do the job

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Originally Posted by Stocky

What he said.


And dodgy as fuck. If I see some dirt bag glassing with a scope Ill call the cops on him... Its dangerous. Its breaches the first rule of always treat the firearm as its loaded. The people you don't see and point the rifle at don't know your not mistaking them for game.


This this this

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...Solid advice, it hadn't even crossed my mind to avoid sitting down and staring through the scope to look around on the tops - I've only stalked in the bush so far and spotting animals has been completely by the naked eye so far.

You were also right on the correction about BDC and rangefinder - that's a spastic brainfart and I definitely meant to type that and not spotting scope. Not enough coffee this morning clearly!

The rifle is a Tikka aspire superlite (Yeah, I drank the tikka Kool-aid...) It's already bought and paid for, and by the time the lockout is lifted I plan to put a set of rings and a scope on it then go do a heap of target practice at ranges up to 300yds getting to know it and, form a mental trajectory chart based on experience basically.

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

I have a Kahles CT 3-9x40 here for sale

$900

A reliable scope with excellent glass

Know your rifle and ammo trajectory and it will work well for the distances you mention

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Thanks for the heads up. I might squash the scope budget down to fit binos in, but if I haven't sorted anything in a few months time and funds grow I'll check back to see if its still for sale.

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Originally Posted by Max Headroom

Three things: First, good on you for recognising that you have to invest the bucks in getting a good scope .

Second:what's a typical long shot for you?

Third: Google "Maximum Point blank Range", have a read and a think. It might be a help in understanding what you'll really need in a scope.

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I would call anything above 250 a long shot for me nowadays, when I was a teenager I picked up a .223 already dialed up for 600yds and kept 9 out of 10 rounds in the black circle on paper. That was 15 years ago and all of the dialing wasn't done by me, it was a range day and I was offered a go. I just read the wind and pulled the trigger... hard work was already done.

Off to disappear down the MPBR rabbit hole...

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Originally Posted by Jt89

...Solid advice, it hadn't even crossed my mind to avoid sitting down and staring through the scope to look around on the tops - I've only stalked in the bush so far and spotting animals has been completely by the naked eye so far.

You were also right on the correction about BDC and rangefinder - that's a spastic brainfart and I definitely meant to type that and not spotting scope. Not enough coffee this morning clearly!

The rifle is a Tikka aspire superlite (Yeah, I drank the tikka Kool-aid...) It's already bought and paid for, and by the time the lockout is lifted I plan to put a set of rings and a scope on it then go do a heap of target practice at ranges up to 300yds getting to know it and, form a mental trajectory chart based on experience basically.

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I see your based in the south even if it is top of the south. Just realise that 500 yards in the open tops often seems like 300 when in tighter Bush gullet etc looking at clearings. Judging range by eye is a dark art.

Buy a fixed 6X42 S&B and spend the remainder on ammo.
Fucking about with vari powers is pointless,if you miss a close running shot and blame it on magnification you would have missed with anything.

There is a Kahles 4-12 x 50 for sale on here for $900 too. That would see you out for life and be better into shadows and gloom than any Vortex or Leupold etc. You buy good binos and then you need a good scope because suddenly you can see shootable animals with your binos but cant see them through the scope - very frustrating

Time for another opinion. Buy Sarvos delta forrest 10x50 binos. $255, new vortex viper hs 2.5-10x44 with dials and BDC reticle on tm for $580 with enough left to buy a cheap rangefinder OR buy the swarovski habicht on tm for $900 and save a little extra for sarvos binos. That scope will give you more shooting light at dawn and dusk

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Originally Posted by superdiver

Time for another opinion. Buy Sarvos delta forrest 10x50 binos. $255, new vortex viper hs 2.5-10x44 with dials and BDC reticle on tm for $580 with enough left to buy a cheap rangefinder OR buy the swarovski habicht on tm for $900 and save a little extra for sarvos binos. That scope will give you more shooting light at dawn and dusk

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This is a fairly good idea to be fair.

However binos maybe get a different set as 50mm objective is a lot and a bit overkill in my experience. 42s are plenty. 32s are pretty much ideal.

VX3i is the go to here.
Use 3.5-10x40.

The CDS clicks on the VX3i are mushy and turn as you carry them so I recommend capped turrets. Dial up is not bang for buck; its expensive.
If you can get the heavy duplex reticle, I think that is better for dark work in the bush. I personally find the standard duplex too fine for hunting.
Ballistic reticle like the B&C are a nuisance - they need the correct magnification otherwise they are wrong. Have cost a few deer.

A fixed 6x42 S&B would also be very good. You will never regret it.
You might find the A8 reticle has quite a wide opening so you're in effect using a plain fine crosshair. The A4 could be more useable and is a classic configuration
Try Phoning Tracy at Deadeye Dicks who are the agent: https://www.deadeyedicks.co.nz/produ...chmidt-bender/

My take is that you want the best scope you can afford and quality drops off markedly from $1000 to $500. So save for binos or else buy some real cheap ones for a start. It's true that you can use binos a lot more but you need a good scope for that last 30 seconds of the hunt. (not counting the time spent boning out and carrying venison).

I do have a FFP scope and for target shooting its fantastic because the subtentions are the same at all magnifications and they match the mRad clicks, but for hunting it is indeed a bit of a wank because its too fine to see at low magnification. To get a good scope for target shooting will cost more than $1000. With the 4.5-14x VX3i the exit pupil is small and you need to get the scope location and cheekpiece height just right or else you're floundering. If you want an all rounder then the 3.5-10 or fixed 6 capped are better for hunting but still satisfactory for basic target shooting up to 300m. If you were shooting a 243 22/250 or other underpowered subcalibre the 14x top mag would be worthwhile but with the 308 micro accuracy isn't essential and the low end 3x will be much more useful.

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Originally Posted by Stocky

However binos maybe get a different set as 50mm objective is a lot and a bit overkill in my experience. 42s are plenty. 32s are pretty much ideal.

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The point with the 50mm objective on the Delta is that it compensates a bit for the lower tier lenses compared to your 42 Leica's, so the end result is that for $255 the Deltas are surprisingly good and will eat the Vortex's and Leupolds. They are really just a copy of the modern Zeiss design binos

Heaps of great advice team. I've shuffled my priorites away from completing a rifle by slapping a pricey scope on it and instead going to channel the funds into binos and rangefinder first. I'll shoot for something simple, solid and affordable to start with. Had my eye on a few options that I thought were exotic, but now digging into some new previously unheard of brands for me. The ultimate "top shelf" scope without heading into outrageous price territory *was* a Steiner GS3 or a Vortex viper PST, even those feel like dreaming at the moment. The Kahles and S&B scopes are seriously smart looking.

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Originally Posted by superdiver

Time for another opinion. Buy Sarvos delta forrest 10x50 binos. $255, new vortex viper hs 2.5-10x44 with dials and BDC reticle on tm for $580 with enough left to buy a cheap rangefinder OR buy the swarovski habicht on tm for $900 and save a little extra for sarvos binos. That scope will give you more shooting light at dawn and dusk

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Did see that vortex last night, and the swaro is a steal at that price.

Off to check the mood of my minister for finance and entertainment... Wish me luck :D

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Originally Posted by Jt89

Heaps of great advice team. I've shuffled my priorites away from completing a rifle by slapping a pricey scope on it and instead going to channel the funds into binos and rangefinder first. I'll shoot for something simple, solid and affordable to start with. Had my eye on a few options that I thought were exotic, but now digging into some new previously unheard of brands for me. The ultimate "top shelf" scope without heading into outrageous price territory *was* a Steiner GS3 or a Vortex viper PST, even those feel like dreaming at the moment. The Kahles and S&B scopes are seriously smart looking.



Did see that vortex last night, and the swaro is a steal at that price.

Off to check the mood of my minister for finance and entertainment... Wish me luck :D

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Good luck mate. All those things I suggested will set you up real nicely. You can tell the minister that initial outlay is alot cheaper than multiple.purchases down the line. Buy once cry once

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Originally Posted by Bagheera

VX3i is the go to here. Use 3.5-10x40.....

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+1

Hard to beat for the money.

Thanks for all the solid advice team.

Ended up going with a second hand Zeiss 2-8x42 from Gun City for $799, been saving the pennies through lockdown so should have enough left over for a pair of binos as well. By all the input from everybody I think it should do nicely for the wide range of hunting I'll demand from the rifle and be adequate for some 200-400m target practice on the hill. Pretty sure it's 0.1 mil adjustments too which is a bit of a wanky turn on for me.

Cheers guys.