Thread: The ‘controversial.222’

Hey guys,

As the title suggests, this has been a hotly debated subject for probably close to 60 years. Within this online community there are plenty of guys and girls that use one to fill the freezer, and just as many that shake their heads at those doing it. The subject of shooting deer with the .222/.223 comes up all the time here, hunters both fresh and experienced wanting to find out more about the cartridges game taking ability and limitations.

So, I have an idea.....

Use this thread as a ‘database’ of experiences on game with the .222/.223. I say experiences, because I’m talking about wins AND losses. That way those interested can see HOW the successful guys are using them, getting a balanced view of success vs failure.

It will require a bit of detail of each kill (or not) and a if it comes to it a bit of humility to post when it went wrong for you. Photos of internal wounding would be great if you can manage it, because a picture paints a thousand words!

So I’ll use my latest as an example of what I’m thinking


80lb sow, shot with Federal .222 50gr blue box. Range of 30yards, aimpoint slightly behind left leg. Animal slightly quartering away so bullet exited just behind opposite front leg. One rib broken onside, both lungs had 1.5” hole through, and smashed 3 ribs on offside.
She ran full pace for 20-30yards before giving up the ghost.
(I would have added autopsy photos, but I didn’t have this in mind when I shot her)

My experience is limited, but I think a good shot with a 223 or similar will do the job on deer etc. I'm not good enough to bank on calibres like that so I'm quite happy to use something full power (2000-2500 foot pounds of muzzle energy, from memory 223 is roughly 1200). The problem I see is people recommending 223 to beginners thinking the reduced noise and recoil won't put them off or make them flinch, but what they are actually doing is putting a hell of a lot more pressure on the the poor newbie to place his/her shot exactly.
At work I always recommended new hunters start with a 308 (or equivalent), and if they're a pussy in terms of noise and recoil like myself stick a can on it.

222 the controversial one.....hmmm???pack n rifle by Philip Holden I believe it was....
223 man myself..BUT I usually load 50grn pills below max so pretty close preformance wise to trebly.
under 150 yards and stationary is my limit...just shot rabbit with my rifle less than hour ago and was contemplating posting about how nice it is to use 223 suppressed,its just ever so polite to use....if thats the right term???deadly accurate and I can rely 100% on putting projectile where its aimed when have a rest.
half dozen deer ,dozen pigs,few goats,countless wallabies and hares and more than a few rabbits....its almost too easy.

This could be fun so I will just sit back, out of sight of course but up close

Originally Posted by tommygun

My experience is limited, but I think a good shot with a 223 or similar will do the job on deer etc. I'm not good enough to bank on calibres like that so I'm quite happy to use something full power (2000-2500 foot pounds of muzzle energy, from memory 223 is roughly 1200). The problem I see is people recommending 223 to beginners thinking the reduced noise and recoil won't put them off or make them flinch, but what they are actually doing is putting a hell of a lot more pressure on the the poor newbie to place his/her shot exactly.
At work I always recommended new hunters start with a 308 (or equivalent), and if they're a pussy in terms of noise and recoil like myself stick a can on it.

NZ Hunter put out awesome article some 8ish years back..cartridges for under 18s...it was well thought out great read and really summed it up well.
from memory the top 3 were 7.62x39mm 223 and 243 all with terms n condition included...you are dead right a person has to be good at shot placement and stick to range limits.

I had a big Billy goat take off after my mate shot him through the front shoulder with a 7mm08 from around 30m, later found the bullet had gone from front right shoulder diagonally through and lodged in its left hindquarter. Meanwhile the Billy took off through the bush, when we caught up with him he started to stand up again, so I gave him a quick shot in the neck with the AR and he came come with us for curry. No doubt he would have bled out regardless but I was surprised he got as far as he did after a 7mm08 pill.

Originally Posted by doinit

This could be fun so I will just sit back, out of sight of course but up close

You will get a good view of this sitting atop of your pile of thousands of empty NZFS 222 cases you have shot stuff with ...

Shot a solid fallow buck at 120+ on the run with a 223 a while back, not ideal but accurate rifle and I back my shooting so got it. Owned an old sportco 222 and only shot 1 deer but was with federal blue box 50gr in the neck at 20m~, still one of the hardest hit deer I have ever seen. Very capable cals inside practical ranges and appropriate shot placement

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Sika hing facing me at 15 meters. Aiming for between the eyes and hit her to low. Possibly due to range, or I just cocked it up. I can still see the image of her bottom jaw exploding in my mind. I followed her for about three hours and eventually ran out of blood to follow. A bigger caliber would have penetrated further and broken her neck.
That image still haunts me twenty years later.
Saw a guy do exactly the same thing to a red stag.

Thanks for sharing that @7mmwsm So far we have 3 wins, 2 losses...

If this goes how I hope it does, this will end up being the place where one can make their mind up on the matter through weight of fact. Either positive or negative. Not an opinion piece, but ‘this happened in this set of circumstances, and the result was.....’

There’s nothing historically controversial about using a .224 calibre bullet in whatever .22 cartridge you like. It’s the advent of internet forums that have stoked up an argument, usually underpinned by a few guys having bad experiences and subsequently deciding that everyone else must “unethical” for continuing to do whatever they cocked up. Some influential writers have steered the conversation and others will just parrot what they say. Bottom line is head shots, neck shots, chest shots, all have their risks with a .224 cal. Same as bowhunting, hunting pigs with dogs, whatever.

If you make a mistake, learn from it, and do it better next time. It happens to all of us.

What makes me laugh is the guys with 7mm or .30 cal magnums getting upset about others using a .223, but then going and shooting at deer 800m+ away.

Neither is wrong, both require discipline, practice, experience, both have their rightful place in hunting, so leave it alone and get on with business!

The last deer I shot with my 223 was a very large Red Hind in Pureora Forest. It was an offhand neck shot at around 70m and the handloaded 55 grain Norma Oryx pulverized her vertebrae. To me the success of the 22 cal CF calibres stems from their mild mannered "shootability". Shooting rabbits and hares with them gives a shooter the confidence to be able to place shots where they need to go.

I shot a Roe Deer straight in the center of the chest front on with a .222 at about 40 meters range,it ran 50 meters full tilt untill it expired.

.222 is still quite a popular round in Scandinavia,it's one of the smallest you can use for Roe Deer in Sweden.

Shot 2 large Kangaroo's tonight both about 70kg. High chest shots both went down straight away both required finishing with the knife incapacitated but not dead with the 222. Fallow deer give up quicker.

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Excerpt of a hunting report posted up a few years back. The story takes up after my buddy had shot a Fallow with his 222

When he fired his shot I was watching what I thought were 2 does and a yearling about 250 m away and was trying to figure out how I could stalk in closer to take the yearling. At his shot, the 3 animals moved around the side of a steep pine covered hillside and it wasnt till the last animal stopped on the brow of the hill that I could see it was a buck. After they had disappeared I moved briskly around the bottom of the hill to try and get into a position to ambush them.

Just as I entered the bottom of the next gully I could see them near the head acting a bit uneasy........no doubt due to the scent left from us when we had walked around the top of the same gully. They then reversed their direction and headed back the way they had come.......about 150 metres away and quite some distance above me. As I watched between the pines I saw the doe cross through a gap, then a second animal walked through quickly without slowing enough for me to see if he had 'sticks'. It then stopped with its head and shoulders obscured by a pine tree slightly facing with his left side towards me. Looking through the scope I couldnt tell if he was the buck .......and I didnt want to shoot unless I had positive ID on his sex.
I held on his front leg for about 20 seconds...........then he moved slightly and I could see his pistle hanging down under his body. Bingo, he was the buck!!!

I slowly took up the slack and the Sako 'barked'. I knew it was a good hit.......but saw the animal start running around in circles. After 3 or 4 small circles I lost sight of him..........then about 15 metres below where he was standing at the shot, I saw a ginger body tumbling down the hill towards me. I lost sight of it a couple of times but was confident he was down for good. After making my way up the hill, (talk about steep!) and climbing up a 30 foot sheer bank I finally found him.........dead.

Ranged the shot at 144metres up about a 45degree slope. Projectile was a Sierra 50gr Spitzer pushed by Varget.

Entry point was just behind his front leg, low on his body. The bullet passed through the buck and exited high on the offside about halfway down his body.

When I gutted him I found that the bullet had passed through the front lower left lung, entered his heart, exited into his right lung at the top rear and then passed just under his spine before passing out the off side.



Will find a pic of him when i get back from todays charter.....

Comes down to realistic range along with shot placement. Several years ago I targetted a large red stag that was leaving a scuff mark in his tracks. After avery complex stalk I shot him with my 308; one shot kill. When I examined him he had had one back leg shot off at the knee and when I butchered the animal I found a 223 bullet encased within his other side rump. I later discovered that a heli recovery op had not recovered a large stag they had been shooting at from the air , in that area.