Thread: The ‘controversial.222’

Originally Posted by ariki

When using a good projectile a .222 and .223 were emphatic and fast killers out to 300 metres on large Reds and Sika.
Loved the Barnes 52 grain x bullet and Swift Scirrocco 70 grain.

Discussions like this make every other discussion silly. If a wee .222 is a fast and emphatic killer to 300m on large reds, so is everything else.

Which I don't disagree with.

Where it gets squirrely is the amateur who reads that and goes banging away at everything out to 300m in all conditions, with limited experience.

Young guys I shot with wanted 222 and 22-250 bexause they were awesome, because the "real pros" used them.

Bigger chamberings are often harder for people to place their shots with.

All being comparable, a big gun in the right spot breaks more stuff than a little gun in the right spot.

I've never seen anything as effective as the 6.5x47 with target bullets because recoil and ease of shot placement is comparable to the wee 222/223

I have magnums now and it's not all its cracked up to be. I love my rem mag, find it effortless to shoot. You just can't kid yourself you can shoot it comfortably from weird angles and funny rests like a very low recoil rifle. Not without a bleeding eyebrow.

the mighty poohseventy had/has terrible reputation for ruining too much meat.....which is another way of saying it did the job too well.
looking back over the years the only deer that walked any distance when shot with poohseventy,I hadnt shot for shoulder bones....THUS WHY I always say take out the front wheels and it going nowhere....

Well not exactly a .222 or .223, but pretty close -6x45

Did a bit of pest control for a friend this weekend and took two reds, a massive red hind at 250, and her yearling at 120. One shot each with a Sierra 85gr HPBT doing 2800fps at the muzzle. Brilliant performance from the wee cartridge. First shot at 250 was low lung/heart shot, full expansion with fragments left under the skin on the offside. Second shot at 120 was mid lung, and the bullet exited after leaving 1.5” hole through the lungs.




Should be good eating!

Absolutely love that little rifle!

Originally Posted by Hunter_Nick

Well not exactly a .222 or .223, but pretty close -6x45

Did a bit of pest control for a friend this weekend and took two reds, a massive red hind at 250, and her yearling at 120. One shot each with a Sierra 85gr HPBT doing 2800fps at the muzzle. Brilliant performance from the wee cartridge. First shot at 250 was low lung/heart shot, full expansion with fragments left under the skin on the offside. Second shot at 120 was mid lung, and the bullet exited after leaving 1.5” hole through the lungs.

Attachment 170303

Attachment 170304
Should be good eating!

Absolutely love that little rifle!

Red/Sambar hybrid by the looks of her

Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

Red/Sambar hybrid by the looks of her

She was massive alright! Mate and I struggled to get her onto the deck of the side x side.

TAAAASSSTYYYY drooling looking at that......

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

TAAAASSSTYYYY drooling looking at that......

Hell yes, looks like beef steak!

I am awestruck by the layer of fat in your picture Hunter Nick.

My father did a lot of hunting in his younger days. He was too young to serve during WW2.... and while his brothers and other keen hunters were occupied with the war, during his college holidays he hunted deer primarily for the skins. So... he had a lot of experience. Naturally he used an old .303 initially. Eventually he got a Brno .22 hornet which I'm pretty sure he used on larger animals but I don't remember what he said about its performance. In the early 1960s he got a Krico .222. I remember him saying at one stage something like he'd shot 46 deer using 48 cartridges. But then he had an experience where the bullet may have hit a twig or something in front of a deer and he seemed to lose a bit of confidence in the calibre.

While I've hunted for a very long time, I have not shot hundreds of deer. The majority I have shot would have been with army ammo from a Lee Enfield .303Br. I've shot a few with a Lee Enfield converted to shoot 7.62 x 39. And one of the most impressive, instant kills I've had was the time a doe popped up in front of me maybe 15 yards away while I was carrying a .22 rimfire loaded with Peters high velocity. I smacked it between the eyes and the whole animal just turned to jelly and dropped on the spot.

A few days ago I shot my first deer with a .223. I was looking for hares on a friend's small farm where he's been having damage done to crops and tree plantings. I had a magazine full of Belmont cartridges loaded with the Barnes MPG 55 grain, lead-free, projectiles which are consistently accurate. I've only just started using these bullets. I had thought they'd be highly frangible (thus a bit safer around buildings etc), but when I sighted the rifle in I found that the bullets could go right through a six inch green pine log. Yet, the first hare I shot didn't have much of an entry hole... and I couldn't see an exit hole... but there was a huge cavity created inside the hare and I found the jacket had fragmented. A while back I emailed Barnes asking what to expect of these bullets, but did not get a reply. So I had to test them myself.

Anyway, back to the deer. It was maybe 160 yards away. I wasn't sure where to aim, but as I looked at it, the neck seemed to be a good option. I don't think I've ever neck-shot a deer before... having mostly gone for the classic behind the shoulder option. My rifle is a fairly new Ruger American Predator... chosen because it was already threaded and had a long barrel. It is very accurate and I was confident. I squeezed the trigger and the deer dropped on the spot.

It took me a while to find the bullet hole. It appeared that the bullet stayed totally intact. I was very lucky in that I had hit the spine dead centre (at a join) and the bullet had gone through and cut the cord. There was no shattered bone. Just a tiny hole. So... from the evidence I've gathered so far, it would appear that MPG bullets may not be a good choice for larger animals. Fortunately I have some Belmont soft points which are also very accurate.... however I have a dilemma as these have a significantly different point of impact to the MPGs.

@Coote...that sounds all wrong...if projectile didnt open up on deer,how will it blow up and not carry on in hares????
50grn zmax/vmax work really really really well on small stuff,wallabies drop well too.
if you can find hornady 50 pack with the 55grn hornady SP They very usefull load.
my load for bigger stuff is a barnes ttsx,so solid copper jobbie.

Yep.... the results do seem all wrong. Dunno why the hare blew up but the deer didn't. I've got a box of that Hornady psp 55 grain. I know a local guy who uses it and likes it. In my Howa it seems to have about the same point of impact as the Belmont black 55 grain soft point ammo.... and for a while I understand Belmont were using the Hornady 55 projectiles.

Well not exactly done with the .222, but pretty close…. 223 case.

Helped a mate deal with another 3 deer on his place, lowering the numbers a little with my go-to rifle the 6x45.
Tried something different this time, and used 100gr bullets like they tended to do with the cartridge in Africa when it was popular there. Used Remington Core Lokt bullets, as I guessed they’d be the softest bullet in that weight class.
As I look at it, performance was great. Three deer on the deck, and two with holes both sides. I like to ‘ventilate’ them well but interestingly a good mate of mine reckons that’s ‘wasted energy’ Not to my mind, but hey, we all have our own theories I guess.
Muzzle velocity was 2500fps, so not to bad for a 200yd shot. These were taken at the 175-180 mark.


The remnants of one projectile taken from under the skin on the offside. There was an exit hole, so some lead must have made it out. Hit high shoulder onside, smashed bottom of the spine and through the offside shoulder. (Downhill angle on the shot)

nothing wrong with 222-223 for goats and deer you just have to be a lot more onto it with shot placement

i have a good mate who is a part time pro goat shooter and shoots a fair few deer aswell (not for work)
shoots them all with 204 ruger and 40gn vmax
granted he is a very good shot and is head shooting 99% of the time
but i think the moral of the story is shot placement is key regardless of caliber used
hell if your shot placement was on song and you had good stalking skills 22wmr or 22lr would be the only rifle you ever need
bigger centerfires just make life that bit easier

Originally Posted by Tahr

Im probably starting to repeat myself now...

Modern hand-loading and decent projectiles has made a big difference to the 222/223, and with the .223 faster twists and heavier bullets too.

When I started using Barnes 55 grn in my .223 I thought I had really hit pay dirt. But they are nothing compared to the 75-85 gr class target bullets (I use 77 Sierra TMK) at circa 2900 fps - I get good kills with them out to 300 yards.

But shot placement is still the most important factor. I prefer the crease shot unless I'm close enough for a confident neck shot. Even the lighter bullets I use on Wallaby do an OK job if you shoot with care as @southernman and @Hunter_Nick have demonstrated.

So I've shot 14 deer for 15 shots with my .223 so far this year. Mostly Fallow which are much easier to kill with the .223/.22 than Reds. The extra shot was a Red stag that I muffed the shot on and hit forward and low of the crease at 250 yards.

This is the from last week. 239 yards, 52 grn Targex bullet while chasing Wallaby. Typical blood shot damage (and bugger all energy - about 600 ft lb, so its physical damage and trauma that they rely on). It died on the spot quite quickly.

Attachment 154293
Attachment 154294

Picked up 30 77gr Match pills. How do they compare to the 77gr TMK. Heavier pill. Normally use BM2. Would 2208 be better?

Originally Posted by TeRei

Picked up 30 77gr Match pills. How do they compare to the 77gr TMK. Heavier pill. Normally use BM2. Would 2208 be better?

They are ok if you push them. I use 2206. Most people use 2208.

Ok so I was looking for a 17 WSM or 22 Hornet for Rabbits, Hares and Wallabies when Brian reminded me about Casey's .222

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....rno-fox-60696/

So I'm quite happy to run 50 grain Nosler bullets at 3k for little stuff and maybe something larger but not 100% on the set triggers, found this

BRNO fox 222 - Page 2 - Saubier.com

And was wondering if anyone had tried the Mauser 98 trigger replacement in the Brno fox, minor, major work needed?