Thread: 140 year old Consecutive pair of rifles. What are the chances?

Sunday I went to the Timaru Antique Arms Auction to pick up a couple of purchases from a guy coming up from Southland.
There was also an item in the auction that I was interested in bidding on if I hadn't spent too much cash on the sales tables.

One of the pick up was a Marlin Ballard no4 38-55 rifle circa 1885.
Now I already had a very nice complete MB no4 38-55 but you don't pass up on these when you get the chance to buy one.
This more recent purchase was minus a fore end, sights and had a broken hard rubber butt plate.
But the price was ok and MBs don't come up for sale often.

These No4s ( hunting model ) are the forged steel frame, single trigger, shotgun butt variation, so was always the preferred model anyway.

This morning the Ballard was the last of the three rifles I had brought home that I got around to stripping and looking at its various good and bad points.
Minus fore end. The Ballard fore end is prone to cracking at the front edges on the heave octagonal barrel.
Minus all sights.
Broken hard rubber monogrammed butt plate. A USA company makes repops but permits and USA !
Mechanically good
Bore very good
So on the whole a very nice Ballard and I have the exact same model already to reverse engineer the repairs from.

Well I get the other MB no4 out and put them together for a few images and see if there are any slight variations in the hammers, levers or triggers ( these evolved over time even in the same model numbers ).
Peas in a pod other than the walnut stock colour as one is oiled and one has some varnish on it.





Then I looked at the serial numbers on the new ( old ) rifle and it also has a complete numbers matching set of parts.
No 23692



And check that against the serial number of the same model, same caliber and same variations rifle I restored last year which was also a complete matching parts number rifle.
No 23693



At that point I realised I had brought the two rifles from the other ends of NZ. One from Northland and one from Southland and approx 140 years since they were manufactured and consecutively numbered rifles

Now this sort of thing does happen.
But it happens to someone else.
Well this time I am "that someone else"

Originally Posted by akaroa1

Sunday I went to the Timaru Antique Arms Auction to pick up a couple of purchases from a guy coming up from Southland.
There was also an item in the auction that I was interested in bidding on if I hadn't spent too much cash on the sales tables.

One of the pick up was a Marlin Ballard no4 38-55 rifle circa 1885.
Now I already had a very nice complete MB no4 38-55 but you don't pass up on these when you get the chance to buy one.
This more recent purchase was minus a fore end, sights and had a broken hard rubber butt plate.
But the price was ok and MBs don't come up for sale often.

These No4s ( hunting model ) are the forged steel frame, single trigger, shotgun butt variation, so was always the preferred model anyway.

This morning the Ballard was the last of the three rifles I had brought home that I got around to stripping and looking at its various good and bad points.
Minus fore end. The Ballard fore end is prone to cracking at the front edges on the heave octagonal barrel.
Minus all sights.
Broken hard rubber monogrammed butt plate. A USA company makes repops but permits and USA !
Mechanically good
Bore very good
So on the whole a very nice Ballard and I have the exact same model already to reverse engineer the repairs from.

Well I get the other MB no4 out and put them together for a few images and see if there are any slight variations in the hammers, levers or triggers ( these evolved over time even in the same model numbers ).
Peas in a pod other than the walnut stock colour as one is oiled and one has some varnish on it.

Attachment 219715

Attachment 219716

Then I looked at the serial numbers on the new ( old ) rifle and it also has a complete numbers matching set of parts.
No 23692

Attachment 219717

And check that against the serial number of the same model, same caliber and same variations rifle I restored last year which was also a complete matching parts number rifle.
No 23693

Attachment 219719

At that point I realised I had brought the two rifles from the other ends of NZ. One from Northland and one from Southland and approx 140 years since they were manufactured and consecutively numbered rifles

Now this sort of thing does happen.
But it happens to someone else.
Well this time I am "that someone else"

well buy a bloody lotto what are the chances neat to see these lovely old rifles find a great home

Unreal

What are the chances of that eh
I was amazed when you called me earlier
They must have been in the same shipment
Would be interesting to know if they were originally shipped to nz or if they were imported at a later date maybe by someone who immigrated
It is hard to believe that they would have come to nz separately
Id say that they would have originally come together for sure
Amazing they by chance found there way back together and even better both in 100% original and shootable condition

I spoke to both the guys I brought these rifles off and they were stunned and delighted to hear the story

Hopefully they will try and get some more info together about the prior owners

That is pretty cool

I do have a rifle that is supposed to be 1 half of a consecutive pair once owned by the Tisdalls , so its other half should be floating around this country of ours somewhere .

That is absolutely amazing. I have two unfired krico from the 70’s, consecutive numbers which I thought was amazing, to find two this age is a collectors dream come true, well done mate

You can make them into a pair .1 and 2. And make a lined case for them with an old Ballard reproduction paper inside. That would be a kool project

Originally Posted by Friwi

You can make them into a pair .1 and 2. And make a lined case for them with an old Ballard reproduction paper inside. That would be a kool project

That is the plan.
I'm a retired commercial joiner, builder and tree farmer.
So I have the Joinery skills and the timber to make a decent case for them to be placed in.

The really crazy thought is that there might be another consecutive rifle either side of these ones numbers that still exists in NZ

I'm picking these ones came in one shipment and there might have been more than two

Originally Posted by Waynesworld

That is absolutely amazing. I have two unfired krico from the 70’s, consecutive numbers which I thought was amazing, to find two this age is a collectors dream come true, well done mate

This I quite believe with Krico's, the importer must have had batches as I had two Model 300's 3 last numbers different at one stage. Bought 30+ years apart.

Pretty cool for sure and must add quite a bit to the potential value. What were people shooting with them 140 years ago ?

Originally Posted by Mathias

This I quite believe with Krico's, the importer must have had batches as I had two Model 300's 3 last numbers different at one stage. Bought 30+ years apart.

Yes, agreed. And now Akaroa has me thinking there is quite possibly a 3rd or 4th.....

Originally Posted by Waynesworld

Yes, agreed. And now Akaroa has me thinking there is quite possibly a 3rd or 4th.....

Ah. In search of the holy grail

I thought finding another no4 38-55 was pretty cool after diligently searching for the first one.
Then another no4 38-55 falls out of a tree and hits me on the head ( well it came to me randomly from an existing contact ) .