Thread: 1970s police issue AOS rifle

Good evening (or whatever time of day you find yourself reading this)

I am after some information as to what equipment (rifle and optic setup) the local police may have used in the 1970s or 1980s

Im trying to find info regarding grandads rifle

A 70s brno zkk601 .223

Any help would be much appreciated

Peter

Pretty sure they were using sako vixen 222’s and later remington model 7 223’s
Ive never herd anything about 601’s being used
Could be Wrong

I was told by an older, retired AOS guy that they used Brno's before the Sako's came on the scene. And have seen a couple come up for sale over the years where the seller has stated they were ex NZ Police issue.

Yes, the .223 BRNO's were ex NZ Police and were sold in the late 70's from memory. They were sold because Police training was a hangover from the old .303 days and they never took into account the controlled Mauser extractor which meant rounds had to be fed from the magazine. They had a lot of problems with broken extractors and jammed rifles from heavy-handed cops trying drop in a loose round and forcing the bolt closed. There was nothing wrong with the rifles, just the training. I converted a good number of them to .22/250 as the magazines were long enough to work very well.

Thats very interesting and believable! Haha
Do you happen to know what scopes the police fitted to them? Mine has a "wilhem fogproof 4 power" on it currently and its not great to use. So im thinking of fitting an equally beat up old leupold vari x to it as it would look "right" but id like to get back to the wat it was in 1973

Thanks in advance

I had one in 22/250. Never fed properly. Sold it.

I was AOS in early seventies. The rifles I recall using were three ohs, probably Mk4 #1, then we had .222 before moving to .223. The sidearms were S&W .38. The sidearm was most accurate when you threw it at something. I could tell you stories about fat fingered guys, Mauser actions and unlawful discharges, but will let you create your own visions.

Originally Posted by Ingrid 51

I was AOS in early seventies. The sidearms were S&W .38. The sidearm was most accurate when you threw it at something. .

There was nothing inaccurate about the S&W .38's, just very poor training and operator error. The revolvers were perfectly capable of 3-4" groups at 50 metres under ideal circumstances. I have a target I shot, 3 shots standing, double action at 10 metres, into one hole. The AOS members had brought it to me (it was one of a batch of S&W revolvers I had sold to the Police) complaining that it couldn't hit a figure target at 10 metres. I started training some AOS guys in my indoor range at work in advanced pistol techniques and was starting to get some good results when the word came down from PNHQ that I was to cease and desist immediately as my training clashed with official doctrine. Ain't bureaucracy a wonderful thing!!

Love that comment Gundoc as it rings true. Our “training” was almost non existent. Even in my latter years, when invited by an IPSC mate to try one of his race guns, I get censured for incorrect hand positioning and aiming. Re optics on long guns...I cannot recall what they were, or in fact if every squaddie had scopes.

Re your being warned by HQ to back off...I once challenged a method used and was told to “shut up; we have been doing it this way since the days of armed militia!” There was very little scope for innovative thinking then.

Originally Posted by Ingrid 51

Love that comment Gundoc as it rings true. Our “training” was almost non existent. Even in my latter years, when invited by an IPSC mate to try one of his race guns, I get censured for incorrect hand positioning and aiming. Re optics on long guns...I cannot recall what they were, or in fact if every squaddie had scopes.

Re your being warned by HQ to back off...I once challenged a method used and was told to “shut up; we have been doing it this way since the days of armed militia!” There was very little scope for innovative thinking then.

Your last sentence still applies at times...of course if the ‘innovative thinking’ emanates from somebody of rank it’s a different story.

Greetings All,
I had one of the Brno .223 rifles in the 1980's and 1990,s. Mine had the non cheek piece stock and a standard trigger. It also had seen quite a bit of use with a long throat and a burn ring on the bolt face. My rifle had the number 10 stamped under the fore end and still had its pop up aperture sight. I was told at the time that the police had used 5.56 military ammo which is too hot for the .223 chamber and caused problems. I used mine for shooting targets, hares and a lot of goats. Accuracy was reasonable but nowhere as good as the two .223 rifles that replaced it.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings All,
I had one of the Brno .223 rifles in the 1980's and 1990,s. Mine had the non cheek piece stock and a standard trigger. It also had seen quite a bit of use with a long throat and a burn ring on the bolt face. My rifle had the number 10 stamped under the fore end and still had its pop up aperture sight. I was told at the time that the police had used 5.56 military ammo which is too hot for the .223 chamber and caused problems. I used mine for shooting targets, hares and a lot of goats. Accuracy was reasonable but nowhere as good as the two .223 rifles that replaced it.
Regards Grandpamac.

Thanks for that

I was hoping to get it shooting through the same hole at 100m but I doubt it could do that no matter how hard someone, that can actually shoot, tried.

Originally Posted by DCN808T

Thanks for that

I was hoping to get it shooting through the same hole at 100m but I doubt it could do that no matter how hard someone, that can actually shoot, tried.

Try and slide a business card under the barrel all the way along to the receiver ring.

I have come across 3 Brno 601s that had high spots on the inletting for the barrel channel. 5 minutes with some sand paper would fix that problem

Originally Posted by norsk

Try and slide a business card under the barrel all the way along to the receiver ring.

I have come across 3 Brno 601s that had high spots on the inletting for the barrel channel. 5 minutes with some sand paper would fix that problem

Yeah there is no gap between forestock and barrel. Best i get that sorted ey?!

Originally Posted by DCN808T

Yeah there is no gap between forestock and barrel. Best i get that sorted ey?!

Would double check it first, some of the older rifles were stocked with a deliberate bump to put upwards pressure on the barrel.

Have seen this myself on an old Sako and due to the location and size of the bump I suspect they used a 'one size fits all' approach to barrel harmonics, might have actually worked with a particular factory loading which the rifle was sold with at the time.

Lee Enfields were mostly stocked with upward pressure on the barrel and they seem to shoot OK...ish...