22 mag or 17hmr

So I'm looking for a new rifle to give me a little more reach than my over barrel suppressed 22 for pests such as rabbits, hares and Plovers. Where I generally hunt is a farm which has little cover and they are very wise to me now it seems.

What are the benefits or draw backs of each, is the hmr more accurate over longer distances? Are they powerful enough to shot goats with in the bush? I have a 223 but would be nice if one or both were big enough for goats so young blood could also shot them with me.

What do you think?

Sent from my work bench

Accuracy depends on the individual rifle/ammo combination, there is no universal difference between the WMR and the HMR in that regard. HMR flatter shooting though.

HMR wil give you more useable range on the pests, WMR a bit more smack at closer range for the goats. Both really need to be at reasonably close range with good shot placement for ethical goat kills IMO.

yeah we usually get within 40m of the bleeters but in saying that the main reason for getting this type of caliber is for the smaller pests.

if not good enough for goats close up i won't bother using it for that, just be a nice bonus.

so with the extra pace of the HMR it's simply flatter, the shape of the pill vs the 22mag doesn't make any negligible difference for what i intend it for? if that's the case i think the HMR will be a better option for me.

My only advice Smidey is down buy a bull barrel 17 hmr, they're a pig to shoot off hand, owned a C Z for a very short time bull barrelled, just replaced it with an Anshultz with a sporting barrel chalk and cheese!:thumbsup:

thanks, i bet it is

22mag. 17 is a pain to clean and usless at distance with any wind.

I have a CZ455 in .17hmr bought it because the old Brno .22 didn't have the range. I have used it on rabbits, hares and magpies but never goats. However i have used it to kill one of our sheep for butchering, shot it in the atlas joint at 50 meters and it dropped instantly. In saying that i probable wouldn't recommend it for goats firstly because you would have to be very accurate (only head shots). Secondly rim fires are banned on public land unless you have a special permit , (not sure if you hunt on private land??) the .22wmr is definatley a better goat gun, body shots with the right ammo out to 60 meters, however again it is rim fire so cant be used on public land. I would recommend you go for the .17 as it packs a punch for small game, is cheap to run and is surgically accurate as long as there is no wind. catridges such as the .223 and .222 are more suited for use on goats.

However one other thing to note is that some rifle producers an interchangable barrel system meaning you can have both of these calibres (.22wmr & .17HMR). I know CZ make these type of rifles and i am pretty sure Sako do the same. Anyway depends how much money your willing to spend,
Hope this helps.

i have a 223 so all good there for the goats. I was just looking at the new ruger american rimfire which got me thinking as it's available in both but i think i like the HMR over the 22mag.

I'll wait until they are available here so i can check one out before i make a decision on what i buy. I like the stock and options it is offering.

I have a HMR and find it is a pin to clean compared to a .22LR (and I would assume a .22mag). Once I get through over a box of ammo it becomes like lightening - never hitting the same place twice. It's very flat shooting though, when I first got it I would hold over for longer shots and find that I'd shoot the hares etc in the ears.

Hope this helps, Rich

You'd head shoot goats to a hundy if you're any good with a magnum

I run an HMR, cleaning is easy if you have the proper .17cal one piece rod, and use the proper sized pro-shot pre-cut cleaning patchs. I have shot rabbits and hares many times out to 180 yards using holdover (mildots) I have also shot a goat at 170 yds, neck shot and it dropped on the spot. (foolish shot to be honest, i got away with it but would not do it again) but it does prove the point that the little 17gr pill put in the right place can do the damage. Wouldnt hesitate to shoot the stinkies at closer range if a good shot presented, but there are better calibers for goats, ie your .223.

But as far as a bunny/hare/magpie caliber its hard to beat for a rimfire. But do yourself a favor and get it suppressed as soon as you get it - they are loud little buggers.

Smidey, you should have been with us yesterday banging targets and Gongs with Happy and 30calterry. I think I could have talked you into the .17 fairly easily with the accuracy, theyre an awesome little cal for what your thinking. Hopefully I get out on the farm next week and waste some more ammo:cool:

223 every day and twice on sunday. If you're looking for longer reach why not go for true versatility !!!

I run a 223 for precisely this purpose and its the shit ... Reload for it and its EVEN Better - cheaper and MORE accurate.

Suppressed, as mine is and the kick is minimal , and its great for young ears and use around lifestyle blocks.

You also have a rifle capable of knocking over goats and deer.

T

Kiwi its a big step up to a 223 for me and the farmer wouldn't be happy where I shoot,his perception, right or wrong. I can go grab 50 rounds in town on a Sat morn and shoot them in the arvo, all easy. and a great step up on the .22LR.

I have a 22WMR and I really like it, do a lot of spotlighting with it either from a quad or the back of a ute and general pest control (pigeons and hares) on a friends farm. It has a cheap gun city 3-9x40 with a sort of mil-dot reticle which is great for estimating holdover at all ranges. I haven't gone much further than about 150yards at the mo, but that is usually enough for me.

Anything that I hit goes down and stays down with 30gr V-max hornady stuff and there are harder/heavier projectiles for goats and wallabies. Only reason I went for this over the 17HMR was I heard they don't like the wind as much but no real experience with that so I can't pass judgement.

Overall I am really happy with my Marlin 925M, I should really get it suppressed as it can be a bit loud though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sparky1000

I

. Only reason I went for this over the 17HMR was I heard they don't like the wind as much .

---

And the buzzer sounds ........ wrong.
The correct answer is ....." the .17 HMR has LESS wind drift than a .22 magnum.

Add to that the 17gr cci is Les than $200 a brick so under 40 cents a round, I cant get close to that reloading my .222 and with the hmr I dont have to worry about the brass.

I prefer the 22 mag, but you might want to look at a 22 hornet, its still nice and quite with a suspressor and much more capabale than either rimfire. but more expensive to run thought.

i wouldnt bother with a WMR if you own a 223, id either suppress the 223 or go HMR

For the game you have described and the fact that you already have a .223, I would strongly recommend the HMR. It won't buck the wind as much as a .22Mag but that is just practise (& fun). I shoot mine out to 150 yards with no worries. I agree completely with another post which is to suppress it, not only for noise reduction but also the weight will improve accuracy. I would also get a trigger job too, especially if looking at a Ruger as they are heavy set as required by US market. Lightening the trigger will only cost $100 and be the best thing you did. Also look at the M77/17 rather than the American.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gunzrrr

For the game you have described and the fact that you already have a .223, I would strongly recommend the HMR. It won't buck the wind as much as a .22Mag but that is just practise (& fun). I shoot mine out to 150 yards with no worries. I agree completely with another post which is to suppress it, not only for noise reduction but also the weight will improve accuracy. I would also get a trigger job too, especially if looking at a Ruger as they are heavy set as required by US market. Lightening the trigger will only cost $100 and be the best thing you did. Also look at the M77/17 rather than the American.

---

i think it is the best option from what i have read so yeah, i'll look at it when available. I read a write up on the ruger and it said it has an adjustable trigger 3 to 5lb. i don't know what that equates to as lite or heavy mind you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smidey

i think it is the best option from what i have read so yeah, i'll look at it when available. I read a write up on the ruger and it said it has an adjustable trigger 3 to 5lb. i don't know what that equates to as lite or heavy mind you.

---

My gunsmith took my M77/17 down to a fraction under 2lbs as mine wasn't adjustable ... but also it's the way it breaks now - like glass. Since he did my HMR, I gave him all my rifles and they all pull the same way and I got him to take the "creep" out of one rifle in particular. He didn't need to adjust the Sauer as they are amazing out of the box with the set trigger. As all my triggers are very similar now - my confidence and accuracy he improved dramatically.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gunzrrr

I would strongly recommend the HMR. It won't buck the wind as much as a .22Mag .

---

Seriously?

:smash::smash:

I gotta learn stay away from the internet.

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps0f9fda7f.gif

I don't get why the 22WMR is considered better in the wind. Just buy looking at the shape of the bullet and the velocity of each cartridge, it should be pretty obvious the 17HMR will be a million times better. The new 30gr WMR which has brought new life back to the cartridge has a shockingly bad bullet shape for bucking wind. It's a heck of a lot better compared to 22LR, and does not too bad considering, but the 17HMR is a lot better. I believe at about 300 yards the really heavy 22WMR rounds start to buck the wind a bit better, but by that stage the wind drift is still a lot.

I'd say go for the 17HMR, the 22WMR is a good cartridge would be better on goats, but at the close range you mentioned I think the 17HMR would do just as well, as with both rounds you will be best with head/neck shots. But I think I'd be inclined to use the 223 on goats anyway.

The 17HMR WILL buck the wind better and shoot flatter. I've found it to be instant death on any small vermin I point my CZ at, I only use my 22s for spotlighting and plinking now.
Many will complain that the 17HMR is bad in the wind, but they seem to forget what the point of the 17HMR is. It's not meant to replace a centre fire round, it's meant to replace your 22 which it bucks the wind a lot better than, and increases the range buy 100 meters at least. It never will replace a centre fire varmint round, but you would be hard pressed to reload centre fire rounds for the same price, and you don't have to worry about finding your brass. You also have the advantage of a lighter, smaller rifle than your typical centre fire.

Unless you compare it too the new 17HH which seem's to steadily be gaining popularity.

So yeah, I'd say go for the 17HMR, the 22WMR is still a good round, I just think the HMR is better.

For small game shooting its the 17HMR hands down. I have shot more HMR's and Magnums than I can remember and the HMR wins on Wind drift, its far less affected by wind than the 22 mag. At 150 yards in a 10 mph wind a 17 gn Vmax at 2550 drifts 7.7 inches at 150 a 33 gn Accu Tip at 2200 FPS drifts 13.4 inches, the 40 and 50 grain bullets drift even more. Absolutely no contest the 17 is better in the wind. I have only shot one 22 Mag that could get close to 1/2 MOA groups, I have shot at least 5 HMR's that will do that and better. The 22 mag goes transonic at 200 or less depending on the bullet and shooting groups at 200 shows much bigger groups than 100. Conversely the 17HMR (17 Vmax) doesn't go transonic until 250 ish yards and 200 yards groups in my Savage are often around the 1 inch mark or better depending on the wind. I have taken a lot of bunnies past 200 with my top shot being 282 on a hare. Cost is cheaper for cheap plated 22 mag rounds but don't expect superior accuracy. The 33 Grain rounds will shot sub MOA but they cost as much as 17 gn Vmax rounds so cost is essentially even. Cleaning is easy just get a 17 bore rod. My Savage gets cleaned every 200 od rounds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Herbmiester

For small game shooting its the 17HMR hands down. I have shot more HMR's and Magnums than I can remember and the HMR wins on Wind drift, its far less affected by wind than the 22 mag. At 150 yards in a 10 mph wind a 17 gn Vmax at 2550 drifts 7.7 inches at 150 a 33 gn Accu Tip at 2200 FPS drifts 13.4 inches, the 40 and 50 grain bullets drift even more. Absolutely no contest the 17 is better in the wind. I have only shot one 22 Mag that could get close to 1/2 MOA groups, I have shot at least 5 HMR's that will do that and better. The 22 mag goes transonic at 200 or less depending on the bullet and shooting groups at 200 shows much bigger groups than 100. Conversely the 17HMR (17 Vmax) doesn't go transonic until 250 ish yards and 200 yards groups in my Savage are often around the 1 inch mark or better depending on the wind. I have taken a lot of bunnies past 200 with my top shot being 282 on a hare. Cost is cheaper for cheap plated 22 mag rounds but don't expect superior accuracy. The 33 Grain rounds will shot sub MOA but they cost as much as 17 gn Vmax rounds so cost is essentially even. Cleaning is easy just get a 17 bore rod. My Savage gets cleaned every 200 od rounds.

---

The man talks pure sense!!! IMHO:thumbsup:

Well you learn something every day. I made the (wrong) assumption that the bullet weight of the HMR would cause it to be more affected by the wind. I'm pleased you have enlightened me as a couple of mates always rib me for my HMR. Now I can quote them some stats. Tx Gunzrrr

Attachment 22150
Attachment 22151

I use a 22 WMR, with the Hornady 30gr vmax rounds. Chronied at 2,180fps, so drift figures are better (less) than the chart above. I limit it to 150m in general (mainly used for night shooting so I'm not looking for brass) and pull out the 20 Tac if I'm likely to be shooting at distances in excess of this.

My rifle is very accurate, sighted it in on Sunday and managed a 5 shot sub 1/2 MOA group at 100m with a 10 power scope. As good or better than the 2 17HMR's I have owned... For my use of the round, it gives nothing away on the HMR, but gains with more energy at closer ranges.

The 40gr 22WMR they're quoting there has a terrible BC, any particular reason its so much worse than the 40gr 22LR? Maybe they just wanted it to look bad. Be interesting to compare the 30gr Hornady @ 2200 as well.

The BC of the 30 grain Vmax is around .095, so blunt as a brick essentially. If 150 is your self imposed limit then sure 22mag is an option but when it comes to shots past 150 HMR is a much better bet, less drift, less drop and just a much hitting energy.

I have used a couple of 22 mags for about 15 years and have been pretty happy with them - 150m is plenty of range for offhand hare shooting. If I was starting over again I would look at a 17HMR

This one looks pretty interesting if a little pricey ANSCHÜTZ 1727F

I shot a Marlin recently and it was capable of going under 0.5 MOA best 3 shot group was .31

If you reload,and even if you don't, forget both the 22 mag and the 17 hmr.

22 Hornet or the new 17 hornet will own those other two calibres.

17Hmr is highly overrated,i just sold mine.Far too expensive for what it is.

You could do that.
I'm thinking I might make a .20 Practical to go my my AR.
4100fps with a .20cal projectile. Won't leave much behind!

Here's my take on this , forget the rimfires altogether , none have the accuracy or range to take goats etc .
Only 2 options , IF you are limited and only can have a few rifles , then 223 bolt .
IF you can afford more rifles , then to me the best is the 22 Hornet , suppressed , it will do what you want around the farm , with disturbing the farm animals etc .
At the cost of a nice 22mag or 17hmr , you can also get a 22hornet or 223 wich has much more range and power etc , the cost of ammo on both will be close if you reload etc .

Later Chris

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChrisF

Here's my take on this , forget the rimfires altogether , none have the accuracy or range to take goats etc .

---

Not enough accuracy? How so?

i have a 223. Just looking for something with more reach than a 22lr subsonic. Goat capable is a non-important bonus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChrisF

Here's my take on this , forget the rimfires altogether , none have the accuracy or range to take goats etc .

---

Yeah stupid .22lrs with shit accuracy! Can't fucking kills goats the bloody things, fuck rimfires they are shit.....

Attachment 22184
Attachment 22185

Maybe goats are smaller than the 100s of Canterbury hares I have shot with a 22mag?

At close ranges , rimfires do work , YOU all now that , But at longer ranges , they are marginal , I have used 22lrs , 22mags , 223 & 308 rifles on goats & 12ga slugs as well , or course you can use what ever you want .

The lite and slow rimfires get blown around in the wind , in NZ where I live its ALWAYS windy , I prefer the 223 , BUT as its not MY farm , and I have to have some consideration to the farm , I feel the best for me is a suppressed 22hornet rifle , magpies & goats are usually well in excess of 100yds , most around the 200yds , ,

For me , as the cost for ammo is either the same or cheaper , I chose the centerfire options and reload them , end of story .

As to rimfire , it should be cheap to run , ie $45 a brick or cheaper , I donot , buy into the high price listed for some rimfire ammo , ie $120 for win subsonic , etc .

Later Chris

P.S. , In terms of accuracy , as not having enough , I am talking of past 100yds etc , and having less killing power at longer ranges , compared to the small centerfire cals etc .

I find goats can be very hardy/tuff animals .