Thread: 270 in a 20in barrel or 308 in 18in barrel

give it a crack see how it works out. might be usefull for opening day as well.

@Vietnamcam and @stagstalker Here's you two giving a thumbs up to someone wanting to shoot deer out to 500 with a short barreled 308, but not what you use yourselves is it ?, rich pricks with the latest in longrange deer slaying equipment being 6.5 prc and 7saum ! If arrows and 223's do the trick, why the Prc and Saum ?
Back in 1940 or somewhere there Townsend Whelan wrote that the minimum energy to humanly kill a deer ( Doe a deer a White tail deer ) was 1000 foot pounds of energy. That was with a 3030. Pennsylvania White tails are small deer like our fallow, not like Reds. Whelan thought 2000 for an Elk and a red stag is harder to kill than an elk.
It does not sit well with me when this 1000 fpe energy is used to calculate how far a given load can be used to shoot red deer.
If someone wants to shoot deer at 500mtrs they should be using 1500 fpe and 2200 fps impact velocity as minimums, they will probably end up with something like a 7Saum, 7 Rem Mag, 300 WSM etc

AND FWIW in my humble opinion,if you going to be shooting past 350ish yards you will/should be using a rangefinder so will more than likely be doing lots of checking and double checking etc etc.... so putting projectile in correct place SHOULD be easier than my....ummm yip that looks to be under 350yards,getting out there though,best be aiming high on the shoulder..BOOM,whack,trit trot trit trot,wobble wobble flop......

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

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It does not sit well with me when this 1000 fpe energy is used to calculate how far a given load can be used to shoot red deer.
If someone wants to shoot deer at 500mtrs they should be using 1500 fpe and 2200 fps impact velocity as minimums, they will probably end up with something like a 7Saum, 7 Rem Mag, 300 WSM etc

and really who gave you the authority to say this is right or wrong...its a case of the pot calling kettle black when you use ANY load thats subsonic...have another look at the .44 magnum figures....

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

and really who gave you the authority to say this is right or wrong...its a case of the pot calling kettle black when you use ANY load thats subsonic...have another look at the .44 magnum figures....

For hunting in Europe - where our Red deer come from, the 'Minimum' impact energy is 2000 joules impact energy. This is 1475 foot pounds

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

For hunting in Europe - where our Red deer come from, the 'Minimum' impact energy is 2000 joules impact energy. This is 1475 foot pounds

but we dont wear twead coats......and do you seriously believe the rules that say crap like a .243w in minimum for roe deer are the norm????
if your thinking that aiming for the biggest vital bit isnt a good idea at any given range...well you must be some kind on demigod with a heat seeking missile if you are smacking deer in the atlas joint with a .44 magnum using subsonic loads at 500 yards(yes I know your not dumb enough to attempt that)

and NO I am not offering to buy your .44 magnum...I was pointing out that you are saying these guys are unethical because they using less than 1500ftlbs of energy when you yourself are doing the same thing..pot kettle black...glasshouses n stones.

Im 50 years old...for most of my lifetime,the hilar shot has been considered ideal on red deer..... for me if I believe the range is a tad on long side...which for me is 300-350 yards,I will place my X hair high on shoulder to allow my projectile to drop that 6-8" into my desired point of impact.taking out one if not both shoulders and the vitals,slightly too far back,good lung hit in the crease,slightly too far forward a good hillar shot or even neck... slightly high,possible spine and top of lungs,slightly low,heart.... much too low is leg..... quickly reload and be prepared to shoot again ALWAYS....

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

For hunting in Europe - where our Red deer come from, the 'Minimum' impact energy is 2000 joules impact energy. This is 1475 foot pounds

This is 145eldx 270 from 22inch barrel Tikka, Labrador for velocity. Handloads, but not hot @3030fps. Factory 145's, although accurate are very slow around 2820fps from same rifle.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

@Vietnamcam and @stagstalker Here's you two giving a thumbs up to someone wanting to shoot deer out to 500 with a short barreled 308, but not what you use yourselves is it ?, rich pricks with the latest in longrange deer slaying equipment being 6.5 prc and 7saum ! If arrows and 223's do the trick, why the Prc and Saum ?
Back in 1940 or somewhere there Townsend Whelan wrote that the minimum energy to humanly kill a deer ( Doe a deer a White tail deer ) was 1000 foot pounds of energy. That was with a 3030. Pennsylvania White tails are small deer like our fallow, not like Reds. Whelan thought 2000 for an Elk and a red stag is harder to kill than an elk.
It does not sit well with me when this 1000 fpe energy is used to calculate how far a given load can be used to shoot red deer.
If someone wants to shoot deer at 500mtrs they should be using 1500 fpe and 2200 fps impact velocity as minimums, they will probably end up with something like a 7Saum, 7 Rem Mag, 300 WSM etc

Who told you that?????

Originally Posted by Shearer

Who told you that?????

It is well known in the Safari Park industry, with which I am involved. As far back as we want to go with the Fiordland herd, the bulls are not recorded as moving far after being shot. Phillip Holden remarked on it

Originally Posted by Shearer

Who told you that?????

Philip Holden went on record saying they were easier to kill...which if you look at it logically is correct....very similar resistance for a projectile to GET INTO vitals and those vitals are a good 20% bigger....

Easy on. Never said it was the best option. Definitely appreciate being called a “rich prick”.

I simply acknowledge that there’s more to it then numbers in the form of energy.

OK I will bite.
IF you can launch the 165 at 2700fps you will have 1414ftlbs at 400 and 1190 at 500
a 150 launched at2800 is plurry near identicle figures

now a .4515 calibre 240grn projectile leaving muzzle at 900fps has 432ftlbs energy AT MUZZLE....412ftlbs at 25 yards
even launched at 1600fps it only just makes ..oops nope it doesnt it only has1364ftlbs at muzzle and 1191 at 25yards.

the mighty .270w
if you launch a 140grn at 3000fps(which many claim to do)has 1545ftlbs at 400 and1312ftlbs at 500 yards.
if you launch a 150grn at 2800fps....................................has 1450ftlbs '' " " 1235 " " " "

so the factory 145grn superpreformance will more than likely sit in the middle

best you stop using the .44 magnum if you BELIEVE its unethical......

stones,glasshouses etc etc etc

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

OK I will bite.
IF you can launch the 165 at 2700fps you will have 1414ftlbs at 400 and 1190 at 500
a 150 launched at2800 is plurry near identicle figures

now a .4515 calibre 240grn projectile leaving muzzle at 900fps has 432ftlbs energy AT MUZZLE....412ftlbs at 25 yards
even launched at 1600fps it only just makes ..oops nope it doesnt it only has1364ftlbs at muzzle and 1191 at 25yards.

the mighty .270w
if you launch a 140grn at 3000fps(which many claim to do)has 1545ftlbs at 400 and1312ftlbs at 500 yards.
if you launch a 150grn at 2800fps....................................has 1450ftlbs '' " " 1235 " " " "

so the factory 145grn superpreformance will more than likely sit in the middle

best you stop using the .44 magnum if you BELIEVE its unethical......

stones,glasshouses etc etc etc

So you have confirmed my point ( unstated till now) that the 308 and 270 are only 400 metre guns using the best scenario of full length barrel and optimum load. They are not 500 metre guns.
Further than that and it needs a step up in bullet weight and velocity, to a saum or wsm etc
And whats this 'high shoulder at long range' aiming point ? Worst place to shoot them when velocity is dropping off unless you mean the spine like a high base of neck shot, even that is a fluke

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

So you have confirmed my point ( unstated till now) that the 308 and 270 are only 400 metre guns using the best scenario of full length barrel and optimum load. They are not 500 metre guns.
Further than that and it needs a step up in bullet weight and velocity, to a saum or wsm etc
And whats this 'high shoulder at long range' aiming point ? Worst place to shoot them when velocity is dropping off unless you mean the spine like a high base of neck shot, even that is a fluke

so you have sold the 44 magnum then???? stones/glass houses

aiming high on shoulder...NOT FOR high shoulder allows bullet to drop into chest destroying lungs etc the ideal shot placement under 350 yards to anchor animal...

no I havent confirmed your bias at all...far from it.....

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

so you have sold the 44 magnum then???? stones/glass houses

aiming high on shoulder...NOT FOR high shoulder allows bullet to drop into chest destroying lungs etc the ideal shot placement under 350 yards to anchor animal...

no I havent confirmed your bias at all...far from it.....

Would you like to buy it ? Open to offers.

Aiming for the shoulder at long range 'allows the bullet to drop into the leg' resulting in a wounded lost suffering animal