Thread: 270 in a 20in barrel or 308 in 18in barrel

@Moa Hunter cheers for calling me a rich prick also might be half right.

I also have a problem with people using energy numbers to calculate how far they can shoot animals.
Because the energy is largely irrelevant.
What is relevant is if the impact not muzzle velocity is enough for the projectile to have good terminal effect.

I also have a short 308 and wouldn't hesitate to shoot a big red at 500y with it if the shot was on. But I wouldn't be using a Barnes 130ttsx because it's just not a suitable projectile for that.

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

@Moa Hunter cheers for calling me a rich prick also might be half right.

I also have a problem with people using energy numbers to calculate how far they can shoot animals.
Because the energy is largely irrelevant.
What is relevant is if the impact not muzzle velocity is enough for the projectile to have good terminal effect.

I also have a short 308 and wouldn't hesitate to shoot a big red at 500y with it if the shot was on. But I wouldn't be using a Barnes 130ttsx because it's just not a suitable projectile for that.

I know what I'll call you and stagstalker now, 'Dedicated followers of fashion'. https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rc...KBHSFLow_lYUnB But on a serious note, for every story of successful long range 308, 270, 243, 7mo8 there are plenty of 'It looked like a hit but we searched for ages and couldnt find blood so it must have been a miss' stories. @stug put up a link to a South African ( not a good day to raise this I concede) safari park operator discussing ethical shooting. His conclusion was that the Heart was the best aiming point because the animal was always secured and could only run a certain distance before expiring

a heart shot animal can run up to 100 yards before expiring....even a hare hit with a .22lr can go 50-75 yards thus hit...and if you did the maths that like hitting a deer with half a pound of lead......

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

I know what I'll call you and stagstalker now, 'Dedicated followers of fashion'. https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rc...KBHSFLow_lYUnB But on a serious note, for every story of successful long range 308, 270, 243, 7mo8 there are plenty of 'It looked like a hit but we searched for ages and couldnt find blood so it must have been a miss' stories. @stug put up a link to a South African ( not a good day to raise this I concede) safari park operator discussing ethical shooting. His conclusion was that the Heart was the best aiming point because the animal was always secured and could only run a certain distance before expiring

That's the funnyest shit I've read all week!

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

@stug put up a link to a South African ( not a good day to raise this I concede) safari park operator discussing ethical shooting. His conclusion was that the Heart was the best aiming point because the animal was always secured and could only run a certain distance before expiring

Interesting conclusion from the Saffa. Personally, of all the common aim points, a heart shot is about my least favoured as there’s a fair chance the animal will run a considerable distance despite being dead on it’s feet, and might be difficult to find (or straight out lost). You don’t have that problem if you hit them in the scapula or hilar zone

But probably not too much of an issue on the Highveld when you have expert trackers at your disposal, and less cover to lose animals in relative to what we have in parts of our country

Originally Posted by 7.62

Interesting conclusion from the Saffa. Personally, of all the common aim points, a heart shot is about my least favoured as there’s a fair chance the animal will run a considerable distance despite being dead on it’s feet, and might be difficult to find (or straight out lost). You don’t have that problem if you hit them in the scapula or hilar zone

But probably not too much of an issue on the Highveld when you have expert trackers at your disposal, and less cover to lose animals in relative to what we have in parts of our country

I agree with you on hits to Hilar. I have seen these 'Centre shoulder, High shoulder' shots go wrong. Animals hit in the top of the lungs or top of the shoulder broken. I was surprised by the Saffa's conclusion until I thought about it. A shot in the heart is a dead animal that will always die humanely within 50 - 80 metres.

@Moa Hunter I wasn't really asking for help with being able to shoot those distances. Was after input in the merritt between the two calibres in short barrel rifles. Until this year I had never bothered with rifles under 22in, a change in thought lead me too this.
I had previously owned a 308 before my 300 and happily took animals with the 308 to 450mtrs. I can't be bothered with magnum rifles at the moment hence why I wanted input. And yes I am proficient with walking, closing distances is and always has been my preferred method. I just wanted to move away from an almost 10lb rifle. Looks like my new set up if I stay with the Bergara will be around 3.7-3.8kgs. So I have achieved that. Not as light as the tikkas but I like the feel more in both action and stock.

Originally Posted by 300wsm for life

@Moa Hunter I wasn't really asking for help with being able to shoot those distances. Was after input in the merritt between the two calibres in short barrel rifles. Until this year I had never bothered with rifles under 22in, a change in thought lead me too this.
I had previously owned a 308 before my 300 and happily took animals with the 308 to 450mtrs. I can't be bothered with magnum rifles at the moment hence why I wanted input. And yes I am proficient with walking, closing distances is and always has been my preferred method. I just wanted to move away from an almost 10lb rifle. Looks like my new set up if I stay with the Bergara will be around 3.7-3.8kgs. So I have achieved that. Not as light as the tikkas but I like the feel more in both action and stock.

Not wanting to have a go at you personally, I apologise as it does appear that way. What concerns me is that because we have no formal hunting and ethics training in NZ, we have a situation now where young or new hunters can read these threads and conclude that the short barreled bush pig they just bought on TM is 500 mtr capable. It might be in experienced hands, in the right situation where the animal is in open country that allows a follow up shot, can be watched to see where it moves to after the shot but not where it can move to cover and be lost.

Originally Posted by 300wsm for life

@Moa Hunter I wasn't really asking for help with being able to shoot those distances. Was after input in the merritt between the two calibres in short barrel rifles. Until this year I had never bothered with rifles under 22in, a change in thought lead me too this.
I had previously owned a 308 before my 300 and happily took animals with the 308 to 450mtrs. I can't be bothered with magnum rifles at the moment hence why I wanted input. And yes I am proficient with walking, closing distances is and always has been my preferred method. I just wanted to move away from an almost 10lb rifle. Looks like my new set up if I stay with the Bergara will be around 3.7-3.8kgs. So I have achieved that. Not as light as the tikkas but I like the feel more in both action and stock.

@300wsm for life what scope are you going to use ?

I've got an extreme hunter in 308 they are a nice rifle, nice action as you say.

Slow down fellas, microwave hasn't got my popcorn ready yet.........

I too have a strong opinion, but with a mouth full of popcorn I'll keep in to myself for now!

A big bull Elk is twice the animal a Red stag is, that's why Americans prefer 300 and 338 magnums to hunt them. Not 243s like Holden used.

Originally Posted by Shearer

A big bull Elk is twice the animal a Red stag is, that's why Americans prefer 300 and 338 magnums to hunt them. Not 243s like Holden used.

correct,but its vitals are still bigger...and Holden ,being a culler was more likely to be shooting mostly hinds,so he was correct.....and somehow I dont think the man was a barrel stretcher as such.... one thing is for sure ,he could shoot.
there are 3-4 hunter/culler authors who used the .243 more of less exclusively and they were all fans off 100grn loads and shoulder shooting..... they killed far more animals than I will likely ever see,so I fail to see reason to doubt thier experience.

Originally Posted by Shearer

A big bull Elk is twice the animal a Red stag is, that's why Americans prefer 300 and 338 magnums to hunt them. Not 243s like Holden used.

@Shearer I have been thinking about why Elk are easier to knock over than Reds. When I cut up an Elk bull it is easy cutting not like a Red stag that is gristle and tough muscle. A slaughter and cooking trial was done in ChCh with female Elk / Waps ages from 1yr to 9yrs. The 9yr cow elk was as tender as the 1yr. Elk are easier to penetrate than Reds and have less connective tissue, it seems that they are more susceptible to shock.

Far out is this still going....Here is me thinking .308 had it won hands down on the first page

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I'm running some test loads on a Sako 308 for a mate, my 270 makes me store it in the other safe