Thread: 30-40 Krag

Originally Posted by zimmer

And lot of Yanks returning from WWII with war trophies also got shootable rifles back home with no 8x57 available there.

I wonder long after if there was regret doing this rechambering given what K98s ended up being worth.

Greetings Zimmer,
The rifle in question had already been altered at that stage but yes many rifles were butchered and we would like some of them back. We can still enjoy the slightly butchered ones as they are much cheaper than pristine examples these days. There are two .303 No 4 rifles in my cupboard. One could be returned, more or less to original but the other is way past that. Neither cost that much.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by zimmer

And lot of Yanks returning from WWII with war trophies also got shootable rifles back home with no 8x57 available there.

I wonder long after if there was regret doing this rechambering given what K98s ended up being worth.

Not a consideration at the time there were squillions of them and no one thought that far ahead. These guys wanted a hunting rifle and the 806 ticked the box.
Bits of Kar 98s turned up in a hell of a lot of English sporting rifles after the war, the sparkbrook cache provided lots of parts for parker hales, for example my safari has a little waffenamph on the magazine follower.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings Zimmer,
The rifle in question had already been altered at that stage but yes many rifles were butchered and we would like some of them back. We can still enjoy the slightly butchered ones as they are much cheaper than pristine examples these days. There are two .303 No 4 rifles in my cupboard. One could be returned, more or less to original but the other is way past that. Neither cost that much.
Regards Grandpamac.

No criticism intended Grandpamac.

It's funny, 20 years ago I couldn't wait to get rid of the last of my 30s. All range rifles. I'd also owned ex rifle club SMLEs at one stage. They were sold and cut down.

My pristine 2 groover No 4 I sold to a "mate". Some years later I was horrified to see it in the local gun shop, all cut down. I guess I had no complaint, he was the owner, but it wasn't his intension of doing that when he twisted my arm to sell.

My last to go was my Fazakerley '54 Fulton.
Now wish I had at least kept the 2 groover.

Sgt Schultz on Hogan’s Heroes uses a Krag-Jorgenson, what more recommendation do you need?

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Not a consideration at the time there were squillions of them and no one thought that far ahead. These guys wanted a hunting rifle and the 806 ticked the box.

Interestingly, my Speer No 7 manual (c 1967) listed loads for the 8mm/06. Not sure how long this continued in later manuals.

Originally Posted by zimmer

No criticism intended Grandpamac.

It's funny, 20 years ago I couldn't wait to get rid of the last of my 30s. All range rifles. I'd also owned ex rifle club SMLEs at one stage. They were sold and cut down.

My pristine 2 groover No 4 I sold to a "mate". Some years later I was horrified to see it in the local gun shop, all cut down. I guess I had no complaint, he was the owner, but it wasn't his intension of doing that when he twisted my arm to sell.

My last to go was my Fazakerley '54 Fulton.
Now wish I had at least kept the 2 groover.

Greetings Again Zimmer,
Years ago I picked up a practically new two groove .303 barrel for 10 bucks. I didn't have a .303 at the time and neither did I intend to get one. It was that cheap. Fast forward until a year or so back and a No 4 .303 that had been owned by a departed came to stay it shot well but the barrel was horrid. It also had been cut down and modified almost beyond recognition. The 10 dollar barrel was screwed in, shot even better so all is well. It too goes on gentlemen's hours walks in the bush and will stay here as long as I am around.
No offence taken. I mourn the loss of some of those rifles as well.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by zimmer

Interestingly, my Speer No 7 manual (c 1967) listed loads for the 8mm/06. Not sure how long this continued in later manuals.
Attachment 152660

It is still in the No 9 manual but the loads have been dialed back heaps. Their max load for 4064 powder and the 125 grain projectile was 55 grains in the number 9 manual v 60 grains in the No7. Those No 7 loads really were from the intrepid years. The hairs on the back of my neck stand up just looking at them.
Grandpamac.

And presumably no one died. The trend of cutting back on loads in manuals seems to be common now driven by lawyers I suspect, though in some cases with actions and barrels now approaching 100 a xautious approach may be warranted. Still it's surprising the number of guys I know with Carl Gustav 6.5x55s made before 1920 as their main hunting rifle using Norma factory. Those rifles must be tough old bastards like their owners.

Greetings All,
Perhaps no one died using loads from the intrepid years but some lost eyes, parts of their face and hands. Reloading manuals prior to about 1975 were mostly worked up using traditional pressure reading methods and resulted in loads that were well over max pressures. Early Speer manuals have been quoted as having very high pressures. I note that the 8mm-06 data has been re shot, for the No 9 manual, with Winchester rather than the previous military cases. These latter were noted to be hard in the head, possibly to add safety with the Springfield coned breech. Denver brass was sought out by handloaders as especially hard. I don't believe for a minute that the reduction in the No9 data was lawyer mandated. It was just a realisation of how close to disaster they had got.
I am not suggesting that some of the recent published data is not showing an excess of caution. I was looking through data for the 7mm Rem Mag the other day and found that the on line data from Nosler is practically identical to that in their no 1 manual from the 1970's and the Hodgdon data was a tad lower.
Regards Grandpamac.

I have heeded all the good advice and after channeling my inner contrary bastardness have applied some of my usual logic by buying a box of ammo....now I'm committed to getting me a 30-40....I'll keep you all posted....I'll shoot a few deer with it and wont worry in the slightest about the rifle costing $400 or the rainbow trajectory or the lack of power...I'll keep you all posted...cheers

Originally Posted by Mangle

Attachment 152847

I have heeded all the good advice and after channeling my inner contrary bastardness have applied some of my usual logic by buying a box of ammo....now I'm committed to getting me a 30-40....I'll keep you all posted....I'll shoot a few deer with it and wont worry in the slightest about the rifle costing $400 or the rainbow trajectory or the lack of power...I'll keep you all posted...cheers

Well done Mangle,
A CBR (contrary bastard rifle) does not have to be used all the time. It can be brought out on special occasions to impress the gullible. A custom history for the rifle can be created for that purpose. Between you and me if by Enfield you mean a P14 or M17 rather than a Lee Enfield they can be loaded close to .308 ballistics but don't tell anyone.
Regards an impressed Grandpamac.

Grandpamac I will keep you posted...it is a very ordinary SMLE but I have a good feeling about where this is heading and already feel the need for another CBR, perhaps a 303-25... always wanted one of those...then a 308 Souper or 308-25 but that's another story.....to be continued..

Originally Posted by Mangle

Grandpamac I will keep you posted...it is a very ordinary SMLE but I have a good feeling about where this is heading and already feel the need for another CBR, perhaps a 303-25... always wanted one of those...then a 308 Souper or 308-25 but that's another story.....to be continued..

Greetings Mangle,
One thing that is probably worth doing once you get your hands on it is to measure the barrel twist. It may be as slow as 1 in 14 inches. This would limit your choice of projectiles so it would be good to know sooner rather than later.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings Mangle,
One thing that is probably worth doing once you get your hands on it is to measure the barrel twist. It may be as slow as 1 in 14 inches. This would limit your choice of projectiles so it would be good to know sooner rather than later.
Regards Grandpamac.

Greetings Mangle,
Thinking about the above post I realised I should have given rather more background so here it is.
Many Lee Enfield and other .303 rifles have been re barreled with take out target barrels from the days when the standard NRA target pill was a 146 grain boat tail FMJ. These were pretty crappy bullets but shot well in slow twist, tight groove barrels. The accuracy life of the barrels was quite short, barely 1,000 rounds with that pill. These barrels piled up in gunsmiths and target shooters sheds and someone, perhaps more than one, got the idea to re barrel the piles of .303 rifles with these barrels chambered for .30-40 Krag. The breech end was cut off so the worn bit wound up in the scrap bin leaving the barrels damn near new.
The slow twists however will not stabilise really long projectiles. Projectile stability is however determined by projectile length not weight and the 146 grain projectile is about 28 mm long. This is longer than any flat base round nose projectile up to 180 grains and flat base spire points up to about 165. My Martini Krag has a 1 in 12 inch twist and your rifle may do as well. Let me know when you are ready to load for it and I will send such data as I have. No point on starting from scratch again. My Martini shoots the 150 grain FB RN into about 1 MoA.
Regards Grandpamac.

Grandpa Mac I owe you big time...what an absolute legend sharing this with me....I appreciate this so much...Slainte !