Is it just the momentum of too many 300 win mag and a small customer base of hard man hunters ?
Or is the recoil too much for precision competition work ?
Is it a patent problem like the 7mm WSM had ?
.
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Is it just the momentum of too many 300 win mag and a small customer base of hard man hunters ?
Or is the recoil too much for precision competition work ?
Is it a patent problem like the 7mm WSM had ?
.
No ,its because I shot the last elephant in the kawekas years ago
Because its a Hornady marketing gimmick with no real practical value
If you shoot distance its a very nice cartridge. one of the best options if you dont want a .338 lap bolt face if you want to reach out long.
Definitely NOT a gimmick
30 cal at longer ranges excels wit above 200gr projectiles and not many factory 300 WM are throated or twisted to run them.
I think they aren't super popular for hunting here because most of us like light weight rigs, which doesn't work as well with the PRC unless it is braked.
I wouldn't hesitate to get one. quality brass, dies and bullets are generally pretty attainable
The idea is great in my opinion, Hornady have created a cartridge that manufacturers can chamber rifles in which is designed around sending a long heavy 30 cal projectile down range at pretty decent speed, A rifle you can go buy off the shelf thats ready to shoot with the appropriate twist to suit those long heavy projectiles.
I see plenty of people bagging on it & the whole "my (insert 30 cal magnum here) can do the same thing" etc etc, but the reality is in factory form it cant. Someone can correct me if im wrong but i doubt theres anyone out there shooting 230gr bergers or the likes down there 1:11 twist factory barrel with any sort of success at range. If you own a factory rifle in 300 win mag / 300 wsm etc, your not shooting anything heavier than the likes of a 208gr ELDM at absolute best (not accurately at range anyway) down your 1:11 twist factory barrel, not to mention the COAL problem, take a tikka 300 win mag factory rifle for instance, even a 200gr eldx at mag length is way down in the case taking up valuable powder capacity. Yes you can rebarrel your 300 win / wsm etc throat it to take the longer projectiles & have the appropriate twist but going down the rabbit hole with customising a rifle and the cost involved isnt everyones cup of tea so for someone that wants to just buy a rifle off the shelf thats ready to go shoot these big heavy 30 cal bullets, 300 PRC is great IMO.
Maybe its not taking off in nz because most guys that want to sling these big heavy 30 cal projectiles have already gone down the road of rebarreling their 300 win / wsm etc?
if Remington reintroduced the .222 today.......it would have the same problem.....its at the very end of whats allowed on public land,you need to be a very good shot to get the best out of it,or indeed any benifit over 10 other cartridges of SIMILAR nature.
unless the range is right in its sweet spot that 10 other cartridge number can well be doubled or even tripled
in short its a Neitch market.....
if your a bush hunter you arent going to sell your .308 to buy one
if your a farmland hunter and usually dont shoot past 600 yards your not going to sell your (insert cartridge of choice here) to buy one
if your a Father getting your kids into shooting and want one rifle you both can use..you wont buy one
if your recoil sensitive you wont buy one
if you like ammunition to cost less than $4 a round you wont buy one
if your into long range slaying of animals and you have perfected your art with your (insert calibre here) custom build that cost you the equivilent of house deposit to build...your unlikely to sell it a huge loss in order to buy new skid on the jock to then go out and relearn it all again..in saying that,THIS IS ITS MARKET
if you have $$$$$ to burn and the urge to scratch the itch and have something different better than your mates one..you might buy one
not my cuppa tea...maybe its yours???
....sounds like you're trying to justify one and writing a pros & cons list...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagheera
Its just bigger then most people need, The 7prc on the other hand will rule the next 100 years like the remmag has done
Greetings @Bagheera and all,Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagheera
This reminds me of a meeting that I heard about once. A group of gun scribes were gathered around the latest wizzo offering of the gunny kind. Most were admiring the new wannabe best ever when a wrinkled old gun writer wearing a large hat said loudly
"What's it for"?
Silence descended on the room and after a while the scribes wandered away. What they did not want to say was that the rifle was not to fill a gap in what was available but to provide something new to boost sales and drive demand. This may not be the whole reason behind the .300 PRC but it is part of it. It is hard to see a use for any .30 calibre magnum in NZ let alone a new one. In other countries with large and truculent game perhaps but not here.
Regards Grandpamac.
I've build one for long range gong shooting and think it's great. Had it out to 1800meters in steel and shot a few animals at 700meters +
Not really any competitions in the north island where I can use it, but there are a couple.
A more accurate statement I doubt has been posted in a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by 199p
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I think a cartridge is never really going to be truly popular until components (brass) and ammo are very mainstream, and not excessively expensive compared to other options which do basically the same thing with better availability and lower cost.
I mean, $433 for 50pc of Lapua brass? No thanks..
Im thinking for tahr hunting and for stags in the Rimutakas.
Use on gong shooting would be good too but I can see that templating might limit that and I wonder about whether I can handle 30 rounds of recoil in awkward positions over a couple of hours.
Its a bit more retained kinetic energy out at the 300-500 m range that I’m looking for. Something like a 3006 has at 50m. I have respect for the bulk of a bull tahr.
Then there is the wind, where a drift that’s imperceptible at a firing point can translate to like 0.5 mRad at 500m and play havoc with shot placement. 10cm less random drift plus 5cm bigger hole compared to my 7mm08 could translate into better results for me and the animal.
Naturally, I’d like Sako to chamber it in their new 90 range off the shelf. I’m interested in peoples thoughts on the wisdom of rebarreling a WinMag. There was a leftover carbonlite in that calibre at H&F the other day. It sounds like its the factory cartridge-rifle package thats the 300PRC’s virtue ?
if yo ucant already do it at 3-500 yards with a WinMag ...well yo uarent going to do it much better with something a little faster.... I believe you have slighted the mighty 30-06 too..... its more than capable of snotting that bull thar off his perch with authority at that range...
Jey0zuss - I brought me last 50 of .338LM for $2.50 a pop... Ouch.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisW
I shoot a close cousin , 300NM... I may be a bit of a wouse, that that size is as big as I would want to have... fun on steel out to 2k... but mine is heavy and not a hunting rifle... 300PRC in a light weight hunting chassis may be okay if it was dialed down, but chase long range with high mv and it would be too much for me.
Liking purely for this phraseQuote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
new skid on the jock
30cal projectiles are easy to get and ADI powders work well so I’m a fan.
215, 230 and 245 bergers are all sweet projectiles so god knows why all the hate. Once suppressed the recoil is lighter than an unsuppressed tikka in any 308 bolt face.
I’d love a 300wsm customised for the 215berger but that’s a $5000 kinda rifle set up where as 300prc is ready to roll from the factory.
Because it ain't a .308??Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagheera
A real lack of rifle choice is whats hampering it ,i have only seen it in a bagera and thats the mountain version thats 5k so not something most would go for . But it and the 7mm prc are really just modinized and optimized versions of the the two older cartridges to make the most of the best new components that are available . The 7mm will i suspect take off once you can get it commomly available rifles as it will fit in tikkas and they are know to be slow to release things and it would be the perfect fit for a carbon lite . Rifles beig chambered and brought into the country will decied how they go here . But the one thing with the 300prc your never going to lack horsepower for anything your likley to run into here .
I have used 5 300prc rifles and all shot well.
All loaded with 230 atips or 225eld match.
If I didn't have my 300 norma mag I would not hesitate to buy that chambering.
Big 30s are a great compromise as the 338 lapua when shooting the 300g pills you know you are shooting a big piece of kit!
A great chambering in my book!
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100 Lapua 300 PRC brass $359Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisW
https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....ss-sale-89844/
So not that bad cost wise
The 300 PRC is never going to be as popular here as the 7mms, just as the 300 Win Mag isn't
We are a suppressor country, projectiles heavier than 160 grains in our typical light weight hunting rigs are too much for most guys unless braked
All the reasons mentioned above are valid when asking why it has not achieved greater popularity:
- recoil beyond what most can handle in a light rifle with out a break and a suppressor ( the gentler 7rem mag is actually the limit for a vast majority of people , unbraked or unsuppressed).
- it does not fit in a tikka ( it does fit in a Sako 85 magazine , and guncity have some Lothar walther barrels pre chambered ready to screw onto )
- only hornady manufatures ammo.
- like every kool cartridge hornady comes with, you have the usual comment” I ll jump on that cartridge when good quality brass is available cause hornady brass is crap”
- Howa and browning were the first two manufacturers to come with a rifle in that cartridge then later Bergara and maybe a few more.
But for a while you had to get a custom gun made if you wanted something descent .
- don’t forget that this cartridge came out just before the USA riot crisis and the realisation for millions of Americans that they needed a gun which brought the whole shortage of ammunitions and components : it was more viable for all the major ammo manufacturers to make 9mm para and 223 Remington than any of the latest exotic cartridge.
- and then came covid and the shortage of components in nz : projectiles, powders , brass, primers ( still)…
And now we have the rifle range restrictions, where a 7mm saum or equivalent in energy is pretty much the max you can shoot, unless you own a good size of land to play as you wish, or you know somebody with such land.
And yes , more likely the 7prc will be the next creedmoor.
Some 300WM have 1:10 like the Savage and sufficient throte for the heavier projsectiles. 300PRC may be easier to load without a band and probably worth it going forward, especialy if you'r trying to reach out without having to 338.
If I was starting from 0 I would probably go 300PRC but I still have a lot of 300WM stuff so
It's basically an improved 300win mag, the 300wm isn't exactly the go to cartridge for NZ hunting so the 300PRC hasn't really taken off.
The 6.5PRC and 7PRC are both far better choices for NZ hunters and the popularity of the 6.5PRC is proof of that.
Unless you are shooting really big game, long range hunting, or shooting steel at 2000m there's no need for such a big cartridge.
My point exactly, .300 prc fills the void for people wanting to shoot these awesome heavy long bullets but dont want to go down the custom rifle road. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with someone taking a 300 wsm / win mag and having it built to suit shooting 200gr+ pills well, but if your starting from scratch and dont want to spend custom rifle money, an off the shelf .300 prc is a pretty good option. Throated & twist to suit the heavy pills, great brass & components readily available. Wether its actually necessary for people to be shooting these big heavy pills at game in nz is kinda irrelevant, people will do what they want to do and it does seem to be the new "in" thing these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPEARONZ
I have to agree, im all for new "cool" stuff, but at 500y your not really doing anything with a 300 prc that a win mag cant do almost as well. 200gr ELDX out of a 300 win at 2850fps has 2000ftlb & just under 15 inches of wind drift in a 10mph crosswind. With a 300 prc you could go up to something like a 220gr ELDX & at 2850 thats got 2300ftlb & 13 inches of drift at 500y. No animal we can shoot in nz is gonna notice the difference there nor is the gain of less wind drift going to make a noticeable difference at only 2 inches. Your only going to really see the 300 prc come into its own as you start to go even heavier with pills and shooting at targets much further out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Maximum cartridge overall length is 3.7 inches.
The same as 338 Lapua Magnum and 300 Norma Magnum.
Only the "bolt face" (base diameter) is the same as 300 Win Mag.
The SAAMI max COAL for 300 Win Mag is 3.340" and the min for 300 PRC is 3.575" - no common ground.
see https://saami.org/technical-informat...mber-drawings/
So, any WinMag or RemMag rifle can't be just changed to 300 PRC by swapping a barrel.
You would need a longer throw bolt to feed it, preferably full Lapua Magnum length.
Attachment 225449
My 300PRC is a rebarreled remington 700 300WM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagheera
Just sits in a krg bravo stock with CIP mags without any modifications
That sounds hopeful.
Can you run factory ammo through it ?
What COAL are you using ?
Yep, ran x5 boxes of hornady precision match through it to get brass when I first got it.
Now running Lapua brass and 230gr Atips.
Will have to double check my coal when I get home
I see, after a bit more internetting, that rifle manufacturers have indeed been making 300WM models with 3.7” actions for a while. Even our favourite brand had 3.7+” magazines in the 75 and 85 as posted here. Of course magazine length doesnt always equate to useable length but its likely the Sako 90 could be chambered in 300 PRC.
why doest everyone drive a ford f150???? its about the same....
Hmmm not 100 yet but the 7x57 is over a 120 and countingQuote:
Originally Posted by 199p
Here are some reasons that compelled me to go this way.
Cheap and cheerful entry to gong shooting.
Howa makes a cheap entry level rifle or barrelled action that shoots well out of the box
It fits in long action aftermarket chassis and stocks.
Factory twist stabilises 230gn pills to great effect at near 2900fps
Ballistic coefficient on those Dosent give anything up to a 338 cal.
Cartridge design has more inherent precision than a win mag or etc.
Decent suppressor calms most of the recoil, but mind these rigs are made for shooting prone which also helps, as does the big optic system and a bit of weight in the chassis.
Have had youth and smaller adults on target at distance within two-three rounds and no flinch.
Have taken a couple of animals with mine to great effect as it retains huge energy downrange.
All of that said, unless you want/need to reach out good distance there are easier, probably cheaper routes to go.
Pay to play.
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