Thread: .303 ammunition

Originally Posted by Cordite

@Marty Henry

Yes, so much history in your hands. So the two opposing broad arrows -><- they refer to sold out of service, is that correct? (Not that NZDF are looking for any missing ones from their armouries).

Two broad arrows head to head with or without the s s was the end of service mark. @Tertle runs the all about enfields website and has helped me in the past with a few unusual marks.
Its definitely worth looking at if you have an interest in the best main battle rifle ever manufactured.
NZ stamped on it means it was accepted into NZ service after inspection. Its usually accompanied by one or two numbers on early rifles the one closest to the nz being the last two didgets of the year, and the other one being the acceptance number, the one in the photo was accepted in 1898 and was the 47th one inspected.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Two broad arrows head to head with or without the s s was the end of service mark. @Tertle runs the all about enfields website and has helped me in the past with a few unusual marks.
Its definitely worth looking at if you have an interest in the best main battle rifle ever manufactured.

like you Marty Ive also consulted Tertle and fairly near drowned in my own drool as I took in his collection.wow!i also owe a big debt of gratitude to GunDoc when he had the shop in brisbane st for his taking of valuable time to explain the idiosyncrasies of the old girl.303 and showing me how to set the scope up properly etc plus shortening the barrel.i was a virgin then not the hoary pig headed potbellied grunter i am now
for 30yrs she wore a bentley scope kindly renovated for me by richard wilhems from wilhems arms &optics-he did the 4x40&the 4x28 replacing reticles with duplex ones and regassing
both .
the 4x40alas passed away 18months ago from old age but that wee 4x28 still sits in the safe as a spare.
gentlemen as a firearms owner and user i feel a duty to acknowledge those craftsmen who have assisted me over the years-a little extra goes a bloody long way in my book!

Originally Posted by Carlsen Highway

Your defense of this rubbish is unworthy of you.

My target is clearly identified. I actually have read it. (Through a developing migraine.) When speaking of the speed at which the Lee Enfield bolt can be manipulated he writes: "...the open sighted Enfield was/is indeed vastly more effective than many open sighted semi auto rifle designs..."" Chew on that for a while and ponder the ramification.

Hi @Carlsen Highway

As you said, your migraine....

Ho Hum, I was talking at his section mentioning the Canadian Rangers' Lee Enfields where speed of firing was discussed, and you were talking of the above quote. Yes, it's worth chewing on that and see what he is saying in the first place. It strikes me that this question has the potential to generate much heat and little traction or agreement, because the writer of TB does not specifically name the rifles he is comparing his SMLE to.

He refers to "many open sighted semi-auto rifle designs", but that is actually not a loose reference but a limited group. It excludes say the Garand (semi, but closed sights), the BAR (select fire, and closed sights), StGw44/AK47 (select firers, though open sighted). It includes say the SKS (really a carbine, but let's not nitpick) and a plethora of non-adopted auto-loading rifle designs of the early 1900s, some of which even lacked full top guards - imagine the mirage playing with your sight picture after 10-15 fast shots of cordite ammo.

Semiauto Rifles of WWI and Before - The Firearm BlogThe Firearm Blog.

I'd have qualified the statement saying that, as cost is a necessary consideration the SMLE was an effective way to get a lot of fast aimed lead downrange, vastly more effective than with a smaller number of many types of open sighted auto loader.

But personally...if going somewhere really hostile and I had the option of an open-sight auto loader, I'd rather bring an SKS, and lots of stripper clips.

The man said something fantastically stupid in the service of making himself sound like an expert.
You seem like a nice man. You are commended for defending him, you seem quite public spirited. I doff my hat to you.

Originally Posted by 7x64

For those who might like this sort of thing. Just a chopped ups porter like god knows how many more about the countryside.... @Marty Henry Attachment 80587Attachment 80588Attachment 80589Attachment 80590

Lovely, i do enjoy seeing these old girls back out there doing their thing!

as to the ammo, i would try and find someone who can reload for you and try some hornady 174 gr interlocks, they are long round nosed beasts, and as such they have a longer bearing surface (and given that I've made chamber casts of 303 that range out to .316 and well beyond.........) they have helped in some rifles.

Some of them will not shoot boattails very well, and that may very well be due to how worn the bore is, or more likely the condition of the crown. But then on the other hand I have had a couple with excellent bores, who shot the 180 grain boattails brilliantly, and the flat base version of the same bullet less well, so you cant predict it. I would try the 174 grain RN Hornady's and the Sierra 180 grain.
I have one with an excellent bore here now, that I am going to try Sierra 220 grain .308 RN bullets in, I have a suspicion this might work. I have a hunch.

These are surplus to my requirements. Maybe of some value to someone? Both full boxes

Originally Posted by Tertle

Lovely, i do enjoy seeing these old girls back out there doing their thing!

as to the ammo, i would try and find someone who can reload for you and try some hornady 174 gr interlocks, they are long round nosed beasts, and as such they have a longer bearing surface (and given that I've made chamber casts of 303 that range out to .316 and well beyond.........) they have helped in some rifles.

I do handload, just not .303. Maybe I should just get some dies...

As a student of history, it always pains me to see the decline of a New Zealand "institution". Someone recently lent me a book that chronicled the advent of the Colonial Ammunition Company (CAC). Whilst not able to recall the events specifically or chronologically It is very much a struggle of hope to disappointment then despair then hope and for a time fortune and then loss.

In essence, the Colonial Ammunition Company and its wares were a remarkable achievement for a country so isolated from anywhere "civilised" at the time, the pioneering spirit and the attention to detail in the final product speaks volumes, in my opinion, for the people that produced it.

Do you have the book title?

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I might get roasted for this, but didn’t CAC pretty much disappear when the massive tariffs on imported sporting goods were removed? I.e. They could sell locally for about a third of the price of imported ammo - as soon as this changed people switched in droves to the likes of Norma, which was a far superior product?

The high flyer shotshell incident was I believe what tipped the balance in the end.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

The high flyer shotshell incident was I believe what tipped the balance in the end.

Never heard of it, care to elaborate? Sounds “exciting”?

There were a number of firearms blown up and attendent shooter injuries associated with CAC hi flyer shotgun ammunition in the late 70s. Compensation was made, the ammo was withdrawn but after extensive testing no definitive explanation could be found. Boxes still turn up in auctions and some of it is probably shot still. Neil Hayes was involved in looking for the cause and has written a few articles over the years on this, and I recall that guns and hunting magazine had a question on it published some time ago.

They were owned by an English company by the 1980's and although I don't know for sure, I always thought they quietly wound it up in the face of competition from American sporting brands.

Graeme Champion owns the CAC name, has a little cottage industry bringing used rifles into the country from Sweden. I wish I had thought to buy it.