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I have received these .303s as part of an estate. I have a couple of my own sporterised ones but know very little about them.
Anyone have much knowledge on the three below? Fairly common models? Any value?
Any info would be much appreciated!
Attachment 227474
Attachment 227475
Attachment 227476
if youve got matching bolts you have recieved a small fortune.... look on trademe.. even an old dunger fetches $5-600 and something tidy like what you have will be 3 times that. I THINK you have a mk 1 lomg tom mk3 and mk 4 but without seeing markings on wrist Im going on little I know..others on here will know for sure..some will possibly even offer to purchase.
The two bottom rifles have matching bolts but the other appears to potentially be miss matching.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Cheers
You really need to take a close up photo of the wrists and side of the receivers if you want more detailed info for each.
The SMLE in the middle has the rear sight protector wings on backwards. Judging from the green parkerised finish, its probably a Lithgow.
Can't tell much about the No4Mk2 on the right.
Left hand rifle
Attachment 227485
Middle rifle
Attachment 227486
Right hand rifle
Attachment 227487
Attachment 227488
Looks like the No4Mk2 is missing the ejector screw.
But the rest of looks like a typical FTR gun that has been kept well by its owner.
Pricing is hard to do via photos. You can't see down the barrel.
I've tended to use the rule of 60% of what Guncity are asking for the same gun is what they tend to go for in private sales.
My last No 4 was the same, a Fazakerley 1956. Mine was tricked up by Fulton. My wood wasn't as good as yours.
I'd have thought they'd be worth at least $1000 each. The last long tom I bought was $1000 and it didn't lookas nice as that one. Does that one (top/left) have the lobbing sights on the left hand side of the rifle? A dial with a small arm down on the fore stock, and a slightly longer arm with a little aperture at the back near the stock socket?
I wouldn't be too concerned if it was missmatched, it wasn't uncommon for them to ship with a different serial on the bolt sometimesQuote:
Originally Posted by TLB
My rifle has the serial out by only 5 on its bolt.
Nope….they were never shipped with non matching bolts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_School
I believe you are right Omark - mix up at a dealer somewhere maybeQuote:
Originally Posted by omark
If value is part of the information you are looking for, don't be misled by covid era high pricing, values are going back to where they were before 2019. ie No4's well under $1k.
Catalogue from last Teds auction and prices realised here;
https://www.wellingtonantiquearms.org.nz/auctions/
If the No4Mk2 is in good order without any barrel damage and it's in full military trim still, it's quite desirable for a service shoot class rifle. Having said that, the issue at the moment is we are now in registry country and who knows what the market is doing as a lot of potential buyers just won't at the moment due to the hassle factor.
The No1Mk3 is Aussie manufacture, but has been apart after it left the military so it would make me wonder what else has been reassembled weird or changed if the rearsight protector is snafu. Lesser value to the No4 here, more of them around.
The Long Lee is an interesting one, in this trim they are getting harder to get hold of and it could be the most valuable of the lot to the right buyer. For value to the right person, I'd say over the sales counter around $3k the lot some more than others on an individual value basis? I'd caution using prices from ED Rogers and Carvells as a true guideline for value, as some things are not cataloged correctly (yes even Ted misses obvious things) and they go for well above estimated prices and others which aren't rare or are bitsers get passed in well under what they set as reserve.
Ok, I was reading a post on another forum that suggests it doesnt mean much at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by omark
My rifle has a 4 digit number, no letters in front at all like most appear to have, the number is the same on the barrel and action but the bolt ends with a different number to the rest, thats pretty close a number to the rest of the gun, its only out by 4. That seems a bit co incidental to get mixed up with a bolt that is still only the 4th rifle stamped after this one. Could likely have been shipped with a different bolt, if thats what the armourer installed.
https://www.gunboards.com/threads/ho...numbers.46535/
Quoted:
"They are of no consequence whatsoever. They were only put there because it was initially thought that components that required a certain amount of hand fitting might go missing when an armourer had a bench full of rifles to service.
When components were being cannabalised to repair rifles, so long as the bolts were lapped in and produced witness marks when blued, they were fit for service. I don't suppose for a minute that re-numbering was considered necessary at the time, although many SMLE backsights have as five different numbers on them as they were chopped and changed beteween rifles.
I think people are living in a fools paradise if they accept that a common numbered bolt is the one the rifle was originally built with.
We have several rare Enfields with non-matching bolt numbers. I get an little cross when people become rude about the fact. I do point out that the bolt fits, it is safe and the rifle passes headspace and probably the bolt was the one fitted by an armourer many years ago, so for all purposes, the bolt is the correct one."
In truth that's what we class as 'operationally correct' but in true military fashion that's not what was done. It's looked at from a civilian viewpoint rather than a military operational viewpoint, and for the squaddie on the dirt if he was discovered to be carting a rifle with a mismatched bolt he knew he was for it not mucking about. At section cleaning time when the bolts all needed to be pulled to clean their rifles, the only way to ensure the correct bits ended up in the correct place was via the numbers whacked into them. This was a safety requirement, and it still is unless you have certain types of firearm which each part is tolerance measured to the micron level and each part is literally interchangeable. If bolts weren't matching, the rifle was tagged possibly unsafe, set aside for amourer service inspection and the situation with the bolt numbers rectified ASAP (after the identified miscreant had his parentage, genetic flaws, poor life choices, freedom and future leave entitlement all 'sorted out'). In general use, bolts were not to be pulled from the firearm unless authorised by a senior to prevent this clusterfluck from happening - and at regiment level the rifles ran off 'Rack #' rather than serial - the serial was purely to keep the bits together.
It's only after military service that we confused this with the 'oh it's still all matching even though the numbers arent' BS.
I spoke with a knowledgeable friend who attended Carvells and I was at the Whangarei show, not sure why, could be fear of registration, could be the recession is having an effect. What we found was things are just not making the previously high prices with many 303s estimated to be around a $K getting to $500 - $700.
Don't want to burst your bubble but that's just observations from recent events.
Cheers
Ive been told by several shops that 303 prices skyrocketed after the buyback and people had money to buy other rifles and 303's became popular at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fssprecision
I guess that makes sense, but he also told me the same thing that for some time now the prices of 303's have dropped significantly and fully wooded ones can once again be bought well under $1000.
In saying that, there are some years/variants that are worth more than others, so it comes down to what you are buying. I hate to think how many rare models were converted into sporters, but Im told many collectors are buying the things and converting them back to the original wood.
Buying the parts to do it is harder than the sportered rifles themselves - and back in the day they weren't 'rare' as we consider it then, a lot of the trials and other types were considered just odd and generally got a worse price than a new in wrap normal production model that all the accessories fitted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_School
Yes, and its even more difficult these days to find one that has a decent barrel and been looked after.Quote:
Originally Posted by No.3
The missing ejector screw on the No4 Mk2 is an easy fix but before you do that check to ensure the rifle has not been rebarreled to 7.62x51. This was a popular conversion with the Mk2's as they were the best rifles for target shooting and many were rebarreled in the 1960's to 7.62. In such instances the ejector screw was removed and the ejector was a blade on the left rear of the magazine. In any event you have at least $3,000.00 worth of rifles.
