.35 cal, why is it so rare here?

I was having a yarn with my cuz in Colorado today. He’s loving summer and getting out and about with the varmint rifles, and spending the evenings hiding from his teenage daughters and highly strung wife in his workshop. He and his step-bro have a seemingly infinite number of Savage rifles, mostly semi-custom jobs that they do themselves. They!re forever swapping barrels and stocks and doing stuff.

Anyway, he’s got a new barrel, a .358, 24”, semi bull profile. He’s umming & ahhhing about which .35 cal to chamber it in, does he go long or short? This got us talking about the Whelan, .358 Win and 35 Rem Mag.

I wondered why we very rarely see the .35 cal over here. I can recall seeing one Remington Model 7 in .35 Remington Magnum for sale on here, there’s @jakewire’s .35 Whelan project, I think @ZQLewis has a .358 Win and other than that... not a lot, eh? If I search for “Whelan” there’s a sum total of 13 mentions on this forum since the beginning of time. My one and only brush with the Whelan was awesome, loved it (QLD pigs and scrub bulls).

Why don’t we see the .358 here? Or is it a well kept secret? In Canada, this was quite a popular calibre. What was it that didn’t gel with NZ? Too much gun? No man eating predators? Are we woosies?

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Originally Posted by Flyblown

I was having a yarn with my cuz in Colorado today. He’s loving summer and getting out and about with the varmint rifles, and spending the evenings hiding from his teenage daughters and highly strung wife in his workshop. He and his step-bro have a seemingly infinite number of Savage rifles, mostly semi-custom jobs that they do themselves. They!re forever swapping barrels and stocks and doing stuff.

Anyway, he’s got a new barrel, a .358, 24”, semi bull profile. He’s umming & ahhhing about which .35 cal to chamber it in, does he go long or short? This got us talking about the Whelan, .358 Win and 35 Rem Mag.

I wondered why we very rarely see the .35 cal over here. I can recall seeing one Remington Model 7 in .35 Remington Magnum for sale on here, there’s @jakewire’s .35 Whelan project, I think @ZQLewis has a .358 Win and other than that... not a lot, eh? If I search for “Whelan” there’s a sum total of 13 mentions on this forum since the beginning of time. My one and only brush with the Whelan was awesome, loved it (QLD pigs and scrub bulls).

Why don’t we see the .358 here? Or is it a well kept secret? In Canada, this was quite a popular calibre. What was it that didn’t gel with NZ? Too much gun? No man eating predators? Are we woosies?

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I think that the simple answer is that here's less of a spread of huntable animal species over here.

If I'm not mistaken you can conquer everything here with 12ga/22/223/308.

possibly because the .308 did the job well enough,like the 303 did before it....a blr in 358win would just about have to be perfect bush rifle...there is quite a .35 following over on Nathans Site...think someone recently did a .35/303 build/rebarrel with good results.

As far as medium bores go we have been spoilt with the 9.3 cal ( .366) rifles from Europe that pop up so reasonably priced thanks to a certain importer. The 35 Whelan nearly matches the 9.3x62 in every way except easy availability of ammunition and components. That's my take on it anyway.

I went with the 9.3 as well , considered turning the 06 in to the 35 but with Graeme bringing in excellent accurate rifles in x62 there seems to be no point
O6 went the 6.5 way and another 06 was bought.

Bought another 6.5x55 today as well.
Damn, I just can't seem to learn.:)

I had a nice 350rem mag that I sold to fund others. Reasonable ballistics out to 400m. 338-06 would be cool if using suitable projectiles.
My 'big' gun is 8 x 57 now which carries a 200gr pill pretty well

Thought long and hard about changing my BLR from .243 to .358 guess if it was here in the U.K. still I would have.
Be great for driven boar in France.:thumbsup: red dot sight fast action and all four round magazine......happy days.

Reason I didn’t was the original barrel still has life and also has made in Belgium written on it.
I have a 7x57 that dose the the job. Just not as fast as the BLR;). Maybe one day:ORLY:

Not being a smart Ass but did you search .35 Whelen or .35 Whelan as I'm sure it is Whelen ?

I have a 338/06 & 9.3X62, (and a few 30/06s) the 338/06 is great for ever where but suitable more for NZ than the 9.3, I use the 9.3 for the same work as .375H&H, Factory loaded up to 325gr !

The .35 is great in many forms, only the slugs let it down, in the old days any way, same as the 8mm !

Yep, Townsend Whelen.
What projectiles do you load in the 338-06?

Because we don't have an abundance of heavy boned big game.

I had a FN 1900 in .35 Remington,manufactured in 1901.
It must have spent 119 years saving up it's semiautomatic evilness before it was handed in.

I feel sorry for whoever crushed it as the concentration of evil spirits it must have possessed would have probably killed anything nearby.

i have a 358 norma, one from Din Collings, and even if i hit a deer in the wrong spot, bad shooting on my part, it would either be dead or anchored. Very good killer with 250 grain projectiles at 3000 fps

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Originally Posted by Scout

Not being a smart Ass but did you search .35 Whelen or .35 Whelan as I'm sure it is Whelen?

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Well bugger me, who knew. And I got an “A” in English.

Thanks mate! That explains a lot.

Cheer's Flyblown,
I have great fun with my 358win in a Sav 99.. To be fair with full loads it's probably a bit much gun for goats and your typical North island red at my hunting ranges of 50-300 mtr.
(Red spiker at 170 mtr, near side shoulder smashed and off side shoulder missing, no edible meat in the front)
Bullets are a bit of a disappointment. Would be nice to see some upgraded options with better BC's. The 225gr Game Kings can be a bit fragile in close but nothing walks away, it's just a mater of how many pieces it is in. Even red misted a few rabbits. The Nosler 225gr would be a better option IMO if you where hunting cattle.
Down loaded with 158gr pistol bullets and trail boss kids shoot it quite happily.
Will admit that full loads without the silencer on the end it lets you know you have released something substantial when you pull the trigger.

If someone wanted a fun project a long action BLR 30/06 re-barrelled to 35 Whelen would be hard to beat for anything in NZ.
Z

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Originally Posted by norsk

Because we don't have an abundance of heavy boned big game.

I had a FN 1900 in .35 Remington,manufactured in 1901.
It must have spent 119 years saving up it's semiautomatic evilness before it was handed in.

I feel sorry for whoever crushed it as the concentration of evil spirits it must have possessed would have probably killed anything nearby.

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I don't feel sorry for them.

Now the few 760 and 7600s in 35 cal will join it. What a waste..

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Originally Posted by ZQLewis

The Nosler 225gr would be a better option IMO if you where hunting cattle.

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Ah ha! Funny, took the vehicle for a WOF this morning, old mate that does them is a keen as hunter, we always swap a few tall tales. Today we discussed our experiences being glared at by Raukumara scrub bulls.

Now I’ve shot and cut up a fair few scrub bulls in Aussie, particularly in NW QLD, always with my .308. Open country, shoot them in the head. But in the riparian bush on the edges of the Mangahaupapa or Raukokore, I didn’t fancy my chances with that rifle and a soft 150 grain. Too dark, too much crap in the way. If any of you been up there and heard those big ball bags moaning their bass rumble at you, you’ll know exactly what I mean. 358 country, and I’d want a staunch bullet.

Hehe, never hunted bulls, and not sure I want to start in that up close and personal manor you suggested.
Have had a pig run my way once, luckily she ran straight and copped a 243 round between the eyes at <10mtr.
Besides I've had a feed failure from my mag and until i know its 100% that bit of doubt is troubling.
. (think it was to do with short pistol bullets allowing the cartridge to move forward in the mag and not engage the bolt face)
Z

35 wsm aka 35 sambar looks cool to me. Would fit in a tikka :-)

There are a few 358 BLRs floating around. Have been tempted a few times but as others have said in NZ a 308 with 180s will stop everything at the ranges I would use a BLR. Add to the fact that there is stuff all factory ammo and the cool factor is just not enough, 338 Federal suffers from the same.

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Originally Posted by Flyblown

But in the riparian bush on the edges of the Mangahaupapa or Raukokore, I didn’t fancy my chances with that rifle and a soft 150 grain. Too dark, too much crap in the way. If any of you been up there and heard those big ball bags moaning their bass rumble at you, you’ll know exactly what I mean.

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Oh yes!

Greetings All,
I think one of the problems with the .35 calibre is that most US rifles have slow twist barrels. This does not allow the use of high BC projectiles and without them they do not beat the same cases in .30 calibre by much at all. The .358 Win mostly had a 12 inch twist but lacked capacity and the .350 Rem Mag and .35 Whelen, I think, had 16 inch twists. Consequently few high BC projectiles are made.
Regards Grandpamac.

Some interesting views and observations, thanks fellas. @grandpamac, very interesting about the twists, didn’t know that.

I have wanted a .358 Win Browning BLR for years, in fact I am pretty sure it was the subject of my first post here a few years ago when I got back from Aus. But I’ve not seen one come up (might have missed it, easily done) and the NZ importer wasn’t interested on bringing a new one in.

Anyway I ended up with a lovely .308, and will be experimenting with heavy .30 cal bullets to see how much short range punch I can get out of it without removing my shoulder. It’s a 12” twist, but that won’t matter as I’ve no need for long pointy high BC bullets for this rifle. Still undecided which bullet I’ll go with for full power loads, but the Sierra ProHunter RN 180gr is looking likely.

@Flyblown......please make your first foray into the 180s a box of bog std winchester 180grn power points.....you will love the terminal effect and the recoil is LESS than the 150grn factory stuff.
I looked for the projectiles to reload and couldnt get them so settled on hornady 180grn round noses...so far the terminal business has been faultless.....both are soft enough to dump energy and expand heaps...the blood trails look like a 4" paintbrush has been used...

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Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

I don't feel sorry for them.

Now the few 760 and 7600s in 35 cal will join it. What a waste..

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I find that pretty sad really. ALL guns that go to the crusher is a waste...not just a select few...


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35 caliber rifle cartridges are powerful medium bore numbers designed for use on large (CXP3) game like elk and moose, the most popular . 35 caliber rifle cartridge is the . 35 Remington. This is basically a deer and black bear (CXP2 class game) cartridge,

The .35 Caliber Cartridge Family
(.357 Mag., .35 Remington, .356 Winchester, .358 Winchester, .35 Whelen, .350 Rem. Mag. and .358 Norma Mag.)

By Chuck Hawks


.35 caliber rifle cartridges have been around practically forever without ever really becoming popular. This is in sharp contrast to the overwhelming success of the .357/9mm handgun cartridges, whose popularity dates right to the beginning of the self-contained cartridge era. Of course, it took the .338 Winchester Magnum many years to catch on, and it took the .243/6mm cartridges over a half century after the introduction of the 6mm Lee Navy cartridge to gain popular acceptance, so perhaps there is still hope for the .35's.

Today the .35 caliber family, at least in North America, includes the .357 Magnum, .35 Remington, .356 Winchester, .358 Winchester, .35 Whelen, .350 Remington Magnum and .358 Norma Magnum. That list, by the way, is in ascending order of power.

That is quite a few cartridges considering that there is not a single best selling rifle cartridge in the bunch. Far more alternatives, in fact, than exist in several more popular caliber families. So it is fair to say that, over the years, .35 caliber rifles at least have caught the interest of the gun and ammo manufacturers, if not the general shooting public.

While most of the .35 caliber rifle cartridges are powerful medium bore numbers designed for use on large (CXP3) game like elk and moose, the most popular .35 caliber rifle cartridge is the .35 Remington. This is basically a deer and black bear (CXP2 class game) cartridge, although it is reputed to be superior to cartridges in the .30-30 class for game weighing over about 400 pounds.

The recent introduction of a Hornady LeverEvolution factory load for the .35 Remington has usefully improved its ballistics. This load uses a 200 grain Flex-Tip spitzer bullet and delivers a MV of 2225 fps and ME of 2198 ft. lbs. from the 24" barrel of a Marlin 336XLR rifle.

The .357 Magnum revolver cartridge has also gained considerable popularity as a combination rifle/pistol cartridge and lever action rifles for the .357 Magnum sell pretty well. The .357 Magnum is ideal for light game like javelina and will do for the smaller species of deer and antelope at short range. It is a good choice for shooters who are very sensitive to recoil, since its free recoil energy is only about 4.5 ft. lbs. when fired in a 7.5 pound rifle.

I have long been something of a .35 caliber fan, but I have to admit that I believe the reason for the general lack of public acceptance of all but the least powerful .35's is, in a word, recoil. However, that may be changing, or at least the possibility of change may exist. I say that because so many reasonably successful yet hard kicking cartridges have been introduced in the last few years. Cartridges that in many cases cannot match the killing power, at normal hunting ranges, of comparable .35's.

For example, take the most powerful of the factory standardized .35's, the .358 Norma Magnum. This standard (.30-06) length magnum cartridge drives a 250 grain bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2799 fps with 4350 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy. This is comparable killing power to the long .375 H&H Magnum with a 300 grain bullet (ME 4331 ft. lbs.), but with considerably less recoil. In fact, the recoil of the .358 Norma Magnum, at about 35 ft. lbs. in an 8.5 pound rifle, is comparable to the much more popular but less effective (on CXP3 class game) .300 Weatherby or .300 Remington Ultra Magnums. As a "stopper" for use on dangerous game the .358 Norma is clearly superior to the .300 Magnums. Clearly, for the hunter seeking heavy game and willing to accept this level of recoil, the .358 Norma Magnum deserves far more popularity than it has received.

Compare the Queen of the .35's, the .350 Remington Magnum--the original short (.308 length) magnum cartridge--with the new generation of short action magnums. This is a particularly apt comparison because the re-introduced .350 is available in the Remington Model Seven rifle, which is also offered in .300 short magnum calibers.

The .350 can drive a 250 grain bullet to a MV of 2500 fps. That load has a maximum optimal range on 1000 pound game (like a big Alaskan moose or brown bear) of 151 yards. It will kill farther than that, of course, but that is its optimum range. The .300 Rem. SAUM and .300 WSM, with their 180 grain bullets at a MV of 2960-2970 fps, have an optimum range of about 120 yards on 1000 pound animals.

Food for thought, is it not? Particularly when you consider that every one of those newer short magnum cartridges burns more powder to achieve less killing power than the .350 Rem. Mag. Perhaps, if the word gets out to the shooting public, the born again .350 may finally achieve the commercial success it deserves.

Moving down a notch and comparing the .35 Whelen (250 grain bullet at a MV of 2400 fps) to the .30-06 (220 grains at 2410 fps), which have nearly identical case capacity, we find that the optimum game range (OGW) on 1000 pound animals is 10 yards for the .30-06 and 100 yards for the .35 Whelen. Quite a difference!

Compare the .308 Winchester and the .358 Winchester, which are based on the same case, and the .358 wins hands down. On a 600 pound animal like a big bull elk the optimum game range of the .308 (180 grain bullet at a MV of 2610 fps) is a useful 175 yards. However, the optimum game range of the .358 (250 grain bullet at a MV of 2300 fps) is 240 yards.

Compare practically any small bore cartridge (.32 caliber or less) with a .35 caliber cartridge of similar powder capacity and the result is pretty much the same. The .35's are just plain superior for CXP3 class game.

They will also slap down lighter game like deer, feral hogs and black bear with authority, of course. However, the small bore cartridges from .24 to .32 caliber have proven quite reliable on these smaller animals, so I am not going to argue that anyone needs a .35 to hunt CXP2 class game. If you happen to have a .35 and don't mind the extra recoil, there is no denying that it will flat get the job done. In addition, for stopping the big predators of the world, it's hard to beat a suitable .35 caliber rifle.

I have a Henry Repeating Arms Side Gate .35 Rem Lever Action Rifle 20" Barrel 5 Rounds Tube Magazine Adjustable Rear Sight Walnut Stock Brass/Blued Finish.

The rounds cost me between $1.65-95,depending on availability (for which there are plenty)(In the US).....thought about bringing one back to kiwi a few years back.......as others have alluded to ,a 30-30 round etc works just fine for the same thing..short range great round,pigs deer etc.....now I have a 45-70 as well.....just as efficient.........

You can never have too many guns!!!

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Originally Posted by Flyblown

Some interesting views and observations, thanks fellas. @grandpamac, very interesting about the twists, didn’t know that.

I have wanted a .358 Win Browning BLR for years, in fact I am pretty sure it was the subject of my first post here a few years ago when I got back from Aus. But I’ve not seen one come up (might have missed it, easily done) and the NZ importer wasn’t interested on bringing a new one in.

Anyway I ended up with a lovely .308, and will be experimenting with heavy .30 cal bullets to see how much short range punch I can get out of it without removing my shoulder. It’s a 12” twist, but that won’t matter as I’ve no need for long pointy high BC bullets for this rifle. Still undecided which bullet I’ll go with for full power loads, but the Sierra ProHunter RN 180gr is looking likely.

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Thanks for the mention Flyblown,
I have loaded both the .358 Win and the .350 Rem Mag, both my sons rifles. Both are easy cartridges to load other than the short mag on the .350 limiting the projectile choice somewhat. My son now loads the .350, now suppressed. with all manner of projectiles from cast lead, pistol , flat point Speer and the standards. It is a very tractable cartridge. I still have dies here for the .358 Win and Ruger chambered the round a few years back so one day perhaps.
Regards Grandpamac.