Thread: .410 slug on DOC land?

Can you lawfully use a .410 shotgun firing solid slugs on a DOC hunting permit?

One of the clauses on the DOC general hunting permit states:

7. Only centre fire rifles of calibre .222 Remington or larger may be used for hunting, or crossbows and bows that meet the minimum standard specified by DOC (available at Hunting: Things to do ).Shotguns, rimfire rifles, 22 hornet calibre, tracer and incendiary type ammunition are strictly prohibited under this Permit.

Clearly .410 is larger than .222, but the barrel is smooth-bore, not rifled. It is centerfire. Is it still a shotgun if you're only firing solids, and not 'shot' of any gauge?

Is the smooth-bore the sticking point? I.e. would the same firearm with a rifled barrel be accepted?

How does DOC interpret the rules for anyone hunting with black powder?

I believe the intent of this clause is about reducing the chance of wounding an animal.

If it was a rifled barrel shooting slugs then no problem. Smooth ore and only slugs in your possession, you might end up having to argue it in court.

I have wondered this in the past

Following.

THE SMOOTHBORE is the fly in ointment..... if you had one of the H&R surviver types that have light rifling you would be ok as it is by definition a rifle. you could just as easily use .45 long colt in that weapon. and my understanding of the clause is to prevent shotguns being used to harvest wood pigeons ...which is dumber than dumb as a poacher using a .12ga is much more likely to get caught than one using an air rifle......
and for what its worth a .410 using solids at 10 yards is on par with .243 at about 250 yards weight and velocity wise.....borderline at best. you can easily load 3-4 or 5 ball buckshot for the wee cartridge but again not allowed on doc land without rifled barrel.

Not worth the potential to go wrong mate

I suggest the arguable point is the smooth barrel as stated. Guess the prosecutions could play the "prime purpose" concept. A shotgun with a smooth bore is primarily designed for 'shot' as in spreadable projectiles. It is capable of secondary purpose though, like firing a slug. A 'rifled' rifle is primarily designed for single projectile use, but may also discharge birdshot as a secondary purpose. I reckon some law guru would try to have you on the grounds that the slug firer is primarily a shottie.

Grey area and not worth losing licence.

I have no intention of finding out the hard way - just raised the question here as it came up in a discussion recently. It certainly is a grey area.

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A while back, 10 years (?) o e of the gunshots in Auckland was selling a semi auto shotgun that came with a rifled barrel. They had a letter from Doc saying if only slugs in possession and the rifled barrel then it was a rifle. I shot my mates one and it was pretty accurate at 100yds.
Would have let the air out of a deer pretty fast.

Not a problem. Heaps around this area have the 410 and fire soilds for pig hunting with dogs. Makes a great bail gun. DOC dont just start court action without some common sence involved. The no shotgun, rim rifle is so you dont go and blown away native birds etc and small game(unless you have a small game permit, no native birds thou lol) My old man used to go out with a bruno single shotgun firing soilds for deer , he had no problem after running into doc in doc land. if you get caught with bird shot etc then you have a problem.
DOC arent going to blink a eye if you pig hunting with dogs and got a 410 as a bail gun and only have soilds on you. Wouldnt waste my time using one for deer etc, too many far better cals to use but for a bail gun they pretty darn good.
The fact is believe it or not the rules are to stop certain forms of hunting and if its clear that you not breaking them because you got a 410 in the bush to shoot pigs of the bail and no evidence otherwise no way are DOC and anyone in power going to waste their time trying to argue that in "theory you breaking your permit". There is a thing as common sence and all the DPOC people ive run into havnt even asked if i had a permit and most wouldnt even know what Cal you have and wouldnt even ask.
Put it this way, if using a 410 for a bail gun no problem in a million years, For anything else why the hell would you use one for deer or anything else as they only good for a very short range and theres so much better out there and you dont have to worry about any DOC people getting involved. Because it seems so unsuitable compared to what you could use (other than bail gun cause its perfect)some DOC people may find its hard to believe thats your only intention and even so if you only have soilds on you i doubt you getting the book thrown at you.

I wonder if you could argue that a rifled slug and a smoothbore (no shot in possession etc) means you could argue that the intent of the act is met.

I also know of a guy who uses a 410 with solids as a bail gun on pigs, apparently very effective. Hunts on DOC land, I don't know if it's ever been an issue

Originally Posted by viper

I also know of a guy who uses a 410 with solids as a bail gun on pigs, apparently very effective. Hunts on DOC land, I don't know if it's ever been an issue

They are so light, can throw them around, use as a walking stick lol and are as safe as houses, i recken they right up there as the perfect bail gun apart from thats it. See a deer 120 m away and you not going to be trying to have a shot, be wasting your time

DOC here issue game bird licences for all of their land, only stipulation is sighting your Fish and Game licence, don't know how you would get on outside the bird season with a shotgun.