Thread: 6.5's

Originally Posted by Wildman

Yeah pretty sure I've looked at it but can remember the numbers. And my quick load is buried in the shed...

I think I looked at seating depth at the time and the cartridge I looked at, comparing two extreme seating depths, there was less gain than adding an inch of barrel.

I think the act of seating projectiles way out as a way to improve performance has been confused these days. I think the real advantage is seen through getting the projectile close to the lands and thus accuracy. Not significant improvement in speed gained....



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I can vouch for seating out adding no extra gains in performance as such. I long throated my 260 Imp after work up loads with original ream, just so I could seat those bullets out further and take advantage of the long mag length, plus they looked sexier End result was I had to add 0.5gr more powder to reach the same performance I had before increasing throat length. All this was with the one powder / bullet combo.

Originally Posted by jakewire

Ok. lets say you have one of those silly short action things , I can't for the life of me figure why anyone would choose a Creedmoor over a 260, given equal barrel length
Please enlighten me.

Perhaps because the magazine in this hypothetical short action - if 2.835" / 72mm - would be too short for VLD bullets seated close to the lands for typical .260 throat dimensions ?

@Mathias do you still have the Imp reamer?

Why would you take any of them over a 264?

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The advantages of the Creedmoor are availability of good factory ammo and the case allows bullets to be seated closer to lands and still fit in the magazine.
The latter being rather important for someone chasing the best accuracy from their rifle. The shoulder angle on the case should allow longer case life when reloading.

260 has the potential for a tiny bit more performance, but not a huge amount.
With cheap(ish) quality factory ammo available even in NZ, brass life and the COAL advantage, there's a few good reasons to choose the Creedmoor.
And I'm a 260 owner.

Originally Posted by outdoorlad

@Mathias do you still have the Imp reamer?

Yep sure do.
PM me if you wish.

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Originally Posted by Beetroot

The advantages of the Creedmoor are availability of good factory ammo and the case allows bullets to be seated closer to lands and still fit in the magazine.
The latter being rather important for someone chasing the best accuracy from their rifle. The shoulder angle on the case should allow longer case life when reloading.

260 has the potential for a tiny bit more performance, but not a huge amount.
With cheap(ish) quality factory ammo available even in NZ, brass life and the COAL advantage, there's a few good reasons to choose the Creedmoor.
And I'm a 260 owner.

The COAL issue is just a bad chambering issue and has nothing to do with the cartridge it's self isn't it?

You can now get Lapua 260 brass which feeds all that matters really...

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Originally Posted by jakewire

Ok. lets say you have one of those silly short action things , I can't for the life of me figure why anyone would choose a Creedmoor over a 260, given equal barrel length
Please enlighten me.

Because if you try and buy a rifle in 260 all you can find is Creedmore, just driven by the sales people really. Wanting everyone to chase after the black ( fashion )
Sure if you dig your toes in they might order one in but I found it bloody hard to get something off the shelf.
I even emailed Bergara in Spain to try and get an "off the shelf " HMR in 260. They told me nothing in the pipeline for the foreseeable future.

The price for ammo ( overeseas ) apparently is another driver, but hey if I owned a ammo company ( hornady ) I would push my brand over a rifle companies ( Remington ) too.

They are both out of favour now anyways 260 SLR will be the new black soon

Originally Posted by Wildman

The COAL issue is just a bad chambering issue and has nothing to do with the cartridge it's self isn't it?

You can now get Lapua 260 brass which feeds all that matters really...

Unfortunately no. Nothing to do with whether the brass feeds. Any bullet may be seated far enough down in the necks of .260 REM cases to allow the finished round to fit a std SA magazine length, but for a typical short action magazine of 72mm this will often mean that with the round chambered, the bullet will be positioned well off the lands. I say often because it depends on the cut of the chamber - by how much the lands have been removed beyond the neck to form the freebore.

The 6.5 SLR mentioned by John has the same brass length as the parent .260, so it suffers from the same problem. This issue is covered in the article here: 6.5 Super LR. At the end of the article there are two reamer drawings that demonstrate why magazine fit can be a problem. With reference to these drawings the cut for a SA magazine fit has the freebore at only 0.055" (1.4mm). There is sufficient anecdotal evidence to indicate that the 130-140gr VLD bullets perform better with a freebore of 0.160" (4mm) or somewhat more, described for the 6.5 SLR in the article as requiring a medium or long action length. It does depend on what profile bullets are used, and whether for the application they can be jumped.

Maybe some of the .260 or .260AI shooters on here can reply with their magazine and chamber freebore lengths, and COAL for just touching with VLD bullets, then we'll know the requirements.

Originally Posted by Puffin

Unfortunately no. Nothing to do with whether the brass feeds. Any bullet may be seated far enough down in the necks of .260 REM cases to allow the finished round to fit a std SA magazine length, but for a typical short action magazine of 72mm this will often mean that with the round chambered, the bullet will be positioned well off the lands. I say often because it depends on the cut of the chamber - by how much the lands have been removed beyond the neck to form the freebore.

The 6.5 SLR mentioned by John has the same brass length as the parent .260, so it suffers from the same problem. This issue is covered in the article here: 6.5 Super LR. At the end of the article there are two reamer drawings that demonstrate why magazine fit can be a problem. With reference to these drawings the cut for a SA magazine fit has the freebore at only 0.055" (1.4mm). There is sufficient anecdotal evidence to indicate that the 130-140gr VLD bullets perform better with a freebore of 0.160" (4mm) or somewhat more, described for the 6.5 SLR in the article as requiring a medium or long action length. It does depend on what profile bullets are used, and whether for the application they can be jumped.

Maybe some of the .260 or .260AI shooters on here can reply with their magazine and chamber freebore lengths, and COAL for just touching with VLD bullets, then we'll know the requirements.

Yeah I agree. It may be an accuracy thing but it is often sold as a speed thing. However there are plenty of examples of VLD type bullets shooting well when seated far off the lands and if you wanted speed you should have gone with the swede anyways... This isnt only a 260 issue either, anyone who has played with the 300winmag will know you can run into the same issue....

What I am trying to sat is that there is no real world difference between the two chamberings. If you buy a factory rifle and you're picking between a 260 and 6.5cm then it will likely be Sako or Tikka which wont be subject to the above issue. If you're going custom then you should get it chambered and throated in the appropriate manner to allow you to fit the projectiles you want to shoot. In general there is enough room to shoot VLD projectiles out of a well throated 260 with absolutely no drawbacks. So the only thing you're gaining with the 260 is cheaper brass and slightly more case capacity.

The factory ammo point in NZ is a moot point. There is no such thing as cheap factory in NZ apart from with the 223 and 7.62x39, and even then there is no range so you will likely have to reload anyways...

I'm not a fanboy of either round, I have owned a few 260's but I'd buy a Kimber adirondack in 6.5CM tomorrow if it was in front of me and I had the $$$$. I just dont see any real reason to get the latter when comparing the two. That is of course unless you want a 6.5CM and like the idea of it, then go with it and bee happy.

Originally Posted by Puffin

Unfortunately no. Nothing to do with whether the brass feeds. Any bullet may be seated far enough down in the necks of .260 REM cases to allow the finished round to fit a std SA magazine length, but for a typical short action magazine of 72mm this will often mean that with the round chambered, the bullet will be positioned well off the lands. I say often because it depends on the cut of the chamber - by how much the lands have been removed beyond the neck to form the freebore.

The 6.5 SLR mentioned by John has the same brass length as the parent .260, so it suffers from the same problem. This issue is covered in the article here: 6.5 Super LR. At the end of the article there are two reamer drawings that demonstrate why magazine fit can be a problem. With reference to these drawings the cut for a SA magazine fit has the freebore at only 0.055" (1.4mm). There is sufficient anecdotal evidence to indicate that the 130-140gr VLD bullets perform better with a freebore of 0.160" (4mm) or somewhat more, described for the 6.5 SLR in the article as requiring a medium or long action length. It does depend on what profile bullets are used, and whether for the application they can be jumped.

Maybe some of the .260 or .260AI shooters on here can reply with their magazine and chamber freebore lengths, and COAL for just touching with VLD bullets, then we'll know the requirements.

Yeah I agree. It may be an accuracy thing but it is often sold as a speed thing. However there are plenty of examples of VLD type bullets shooting well when seated far off the lands and if you wanted speed you should have gone with the swede anyways... This isnt only a 260 issue either, anyone who has played with the 300winmag will know you can run into the same issue....

What I am trying to sat is that there is no real world difference between the two chamberings. If you buy a factory rifle and you're picking between a 260 and 6.5cm then it will likely be Sako or Tikka which wont be subject to the above issue. If you're going custom then you should get it chambered and throated in the appropriate manner to allow you to fit the projectiles you want to shoot. In general there is enough room to shoot VLD projectiles out of a well throated 260 with absolutely no drawbacks. So the only thing you're gaining with the 260 is cheaper brass and slightly more case capacity.

The factory ammo point in NZ is a moot point. There is no such thing as cheap factory in NZ apart from with the 223 and 7.62x39, and even then there is no range so you will likely have to reload anyways...

I'm not a fanboy of either round, I have owned a few 260's but I'd buy a Kimber adirondack in 6.5CM tomorrow if it was in front of me and I had the $$$$. I just dont see any real reason to get the latter when comparing the two. That is of course unless you want a 6.5CM and like the idea of it, then go with it and bee happy.

Originally Posted by Wildman

Yeah I agree. It may be an accuracy thing but it is often sold as a speed thing. However there are plenty of examples of VLD type bullets shooting well when seated far off the lands and if you wanted speed you should have gone with the swede anyways... This isnt only a 260 issue either, anyone who has played with the 300winmag will know you can run into the same issue....

What I am trying to sat is that there is no real world difference between the two chamberings. If you buy a factory rifle and you're picking between a 260 and 6.5cm then it will likely be Sako or Tikka which wont be subject to the above issue. If you're going custom then you should get it chambered and throated in the appropriate manner to allow you to fit the projectiles you want to shoot. In general there is enough room to shoot VLD projectiles out of a well throated 260 with absolutely no drawbacks. So the only thing you're gaining with the 260 is cheaper brass and slightly more case capacity.

The factory ammo point in NZ is a moot point. There is no such thing as cheap factory in NZ apart from with the 223 and 7.62x39, and even then there is no range so you will likely have to reload anyways...

I'm not a fanboy of either round, I have owned a few 260's but I'd buy a Kimber adirondack in 6.5CM tomorrow if it was in front of me and I had the $$$$. I just dont see any real reason to get the latter when comparing the two. That is of course unless you want a 6.5CM and like the idea of it, then go with it and bee happy.

If you were going for a Tikka and were chasing accuracy the CM will certainly be worth considering, with Tikkas notoriously short magazines the CM shorter COAL may prove to be deal breaker. Lapua brass is also available for the CM now.
I saw in Reloaders the other day Hornady Match ammo for the Creedmoor $50 for 20 rounds, not dirt cheap but considering buying new brass is around $2 each it's pretty good. Compared to 260 ammo prices it's a bargain!

I'm not a Creedmoor fan boy, never shot or owned one but own and love my 260, if I were buying a new rifle I would certainly consider making the jump to the CM.
But I am a Tikka fan boy, and the COAL would be a major consideration for me.

Feeding - It does pay to try the cartridge in the action you intend to use if you can, they all have slight differences in the feed rails and follower, the consequence is its possible to make a "pig" that never feeds consistently, and you'll rue the day you spent a lot of hard earned $$ on a rifle that doesn't function as nicely as it should (especially when you go for that quick second shot and . . . . ).

Originally Posted by dogmatix

Attachment 81645

I like the analogy. Beards will come and go with fashion and after you meet the guy you will realise he's nothing special.
Here's a couple for the 270win. Honest, reliable and humble.


Still looking for a photo of Graeme Norton for the 7mm08.

Apologies in advance for the hijack.