Does anyone here have a 6mm ARC ?
If so what are your thoughts / observations / results ?
What projectiles are you throwing and what velocities are you getting ?
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Does anyone here have a 6mm ARC ?
If so what are your thoughts / observations / results ?
What projectiles are you throwing and what velocities are you getting ?
I had one. Criterion 22" barrel in a Savage SA. Normal load was a 103 ELDX at 2740 but with Leverevolution I had a "hunting" load or the same projectile at 2860. It shot very well but after a bit of its poor feeding habit from AICS magazines (proper x39 ones) and a comment from a gunsmith about "usually its better to run a big motor at low revs than a little one screaming" and then "how long does your brass last" I decided I was pushing shit uphill and reameecit to 6mm CM.
Vortex nation podcast have done a fair bit on it on their YouTube channel
Gota keep our much needed Gunsmiths in business. I’ll go Arc if I can afford another build. I had 6.5grendel, still have the barrel, have a 7.62x39 for subsonic testing, if that turns out too much of a gimic I’d try 6Arc next
Started looking at it. Daydreaming really. 6Dasher is what I’ve got in mind. 30ish grains of powder, 18-20” barrel with no or mini suppressor, ultra light chassis/stock.
All theoretical for now…
Would be keen to learn if the ARC offers anything over the dasher other than being available from factory mini action.
I got a 17 inch hardys barrel on a ruger. Have shot probably 12 deer with it, all reds bar one. 50 yards to 500.
Using factory 108 eldm.
Would sell or trade for a 22 or 223 as all I'm using it for is shooting possums with the thermal. Bit of an overkill hahaha
US special forces have adopted the round, so that says something about it
Yup, it says it will work in a gas system rifle :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat ninja
Or perhaps 6MAX?
6MAX uses the existing 223 bolt face and delivers similar performance than a 6ARC.
Been looking at getting one too.
H&F have Ruger Ranch Gen II 6mm ARC, 16.1", threaded, $1499.
Howa also make a 6mm ARC, but haven't seen it on the shelves in NZ yet.
The Howas are in NZ. I can confirm that.
Talk to @Deon Kruger on here, hes got some already I build him, there are several other but I did not ask permission to post their names
Got one built on a howa 1500.
Jaco goosen built it. Liking it alot. Fired 100 rounds of factory hornady black 105gr accounting for more than a few fallow and goats. Just working up a 100gr sierra gameking load.
My 223 is going to be retired after I get it sorted
The is no doubt that the x39s (Grendel, ARC etc) and x43s (6.8SPC, 224 Valkyrie etc) produce ballistics that are ideal for nearly all NZ game to as far as you like although they are no match for a magnum at the longer ranges. For many many shooters they are ideal in terms of recoil and overall rifle weight in "mini" actions as well as SAs. They are very hard to beat as a target rifle cartridge at reasonable ranges. I've had very enjoyable runs with 7.62x39, 6.5 Grendel, 6mm ARC, 6.8 SPC and 224 Valkyrie in various hunting and target rifle configurations.
For me the "Achilles heel" of this cartridge class is feeding in bolt guns. Every one of mine has had a cock-up of some sort in feeding at some stage. I've tried lots of things in term of magazines etc but eventually (in 50-100s of rounds) something has gone awry. Compared with a 223 or 308 class one will go for literally 1000s of rounds without a failure. I don't know why this is but it is a thing and is common to a heck of a lot of these shorter cartridges e.g. the BRs, Dasher etc.
The final point is that like just about all cartridges we tend to see "the bright side" and with these small guys there is heaps of "my Grendel produces xxxx fps with xx" and we go "oh goody, that'll do me" only to find that my barrel simply won't go that fast, or people push the limits unknowingly putting themselves at risk (to achieve what other people have claimed). I've run 4-5 barrels with these cartidges and only one has produced "internet " velocities, and that with reduced brass life indicating that my pressures were "right up there".
I've had a lot of fun and learnt a lot from the x39s and x43s but I've only got one left and it's survived by being a particularly exceptional shooter in target rifle mode. It's given me the shits with occasional missfeeds in PRS matches so it doesn't go there much but it's fine for non pressure shooting from mounds.
Watch Eric Corina's blackjack challenge series on YouTube and you will see lots of feeding issues.
It's much more sensible toQuote:
Originally Posted by Tentman
1 - be really realistic about what velocity is actually required and what benefit there is from more (not much)
2 - base velocity estimates for selecting a cartridge on a pretty conservative basis from book max data and not anecdote online
especially if you just take the sensible route and use more modern cartridges where book load data is of much more relevance and better quality than older data.
No need asking @Jaco but my two 6 mm ARC's not going anywhere. 😁Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaco Goosen
Running Targex 112 gr an average of 2800 fps out of a 26" tube. Start shooting very tight groups once i tighten the rear scope ring screws(thats another story)🙈 Barrel still running in so it will speed up a little.
Just my opinion but theres no point using x39 unless you put a short barrel on it. For an extra half an inch you can have a x51 which will be ballistically far superior.
Removing 6-8” of barrel tip gives you 200fps below “book” and you’ll need a special projectile to expand there.
In NZ, Trajectory and lethality are most suitable for a nearby South Island wallaby.
However, if a Falloe or small pig pops out, it can be pressed into service ….
Reloaders Supplies have advised they have the Howa 6mm ARCs
$1k for HB barreled action. Tempting but 22G and 6.5G should be enough :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tentman
I read this thread and think to self...yeah nah just use a .243 lol someone else in another thread summed it up well. It's far better to run bigger case or motor at half throttle than a smaller one screaming it's nuts off with resulting shorter life.
You can also run a smaller motor in the recommended rev range, and quietly and efficiently get thr lawn mowed just the same
Which comes back to... get as close as you can,then get in five yards more....or,anywhere in the eye son....
Yeah stay within the limits of the bullet at the speed it's going. Which for a 108 out of a 6mm ARC might still be about 500m.
500m is a fair distance for a short barrel AR
I see what you’re saying. Wiki tells me 108gr MV from 24” is 2750. Take off 8”, it will be 2550. G7 will be 0.261Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
Strelok says velocity at 500m will be 1730 f/s and will that bullet expand much ?
KE is 715 ft.lb
A (big) wallaby chest is about 5cm ie 0.1 mRad at 500m. Full value windage for 5m/s cross is 1.4, so only 0.3 mRad for 1m/s …
So, work within the limitations of the cartridge…
The 108 with a mv of 2550fps is deadly at 500yards!
Frankly I feel the small-moderate 6mms are a little bit over-gunned for me, much of the time
Just waiting for the Barreled Action to arrive :thumbsup:
https://i.imgur.com/xJ1Ze7e.jpg
And I get pointed out for being a shit stirrer - haha nice one.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
Yes, very much looking forward to you expounding the virtues of the 22creedmore/arc. Certainly worthy of a conversation.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
Seriously though, there has never been a better time for the new, junior, light framed shooters or anybody needing to downsize due to injury/age related issues. The highly efficient 22/6mm cartridges available now, capable of utilising a good range of bullet weights and types, would see you in good stead for the rest of your shooting life. All wrapped up in a light to medium weight package means that they pretty much cover most general hunting scenarios without sacrificing terminal performance. In most situations, you’d never feel the need to gun up.
Yes, I know it’s sacrilegious but It’s not hard to envisage a “one gun does it all” situation.
Yup defiantly agree. Also think people are realizing that these smaller cartridges are cheaper to run and that you don't also have to kill the hill behind what ever you are shooting at.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidetrack
Suppressors and limbsaver did that ,suitable for youth,slended built,recoil sensitive....without changing cartridge lol
Yes but then if you apply those to an arc or grendel you get an even softer shooting deer capable round.
My Howa barreled action arrived yesterday and I spent a bit of time setting it up .
Put it into a standard Houge stock ( if I end up liking the 6mm ARC I’ll probably upgrade to Carbon) , I had to spend some time sanding out the barrel channel because it was touching on the left hand side . I also had to do a little bit of relieving around the bottom metal so that the aftermarket hinged floorplate metal would fit correctly.
I then installed a 1.5 lb trigger spring which I had laying around from a previous Howa project.
Next was to mount a scope , in my box of bits I have a selection of Howa mounts / rings etc so after a dig around I came up with some Talley rings , but after a test fit I struck a problem of the screws being to long and protruding down into the action stopping the bolt from being inserted. I could have just ground the screws shorter, but couldn’t be bothered at the moment.
So some Burris bases and Ken Farrel rings were called into action and everything mounted up perfectly with my old faithful Meopta 3-9 scope .A larger bolt knob was installed and I’m ready for test firing tomorrow with some factory 108gr ammo before I start hand loading.
https://i.imgur.com/YdauKVl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CXrY0JY.jpg
I thought I’d just give some initial thoughts on the Howa 6mm ARC .
This is my first Howa Mini , but have owned a number of the SA Howa 1500’s over the years .
I really like the compact action size of the Mini and that combined with the 20 inch barrel makes for a very short handy dimensioned Rifle , which is ideal for the Ute and SxS .
The varmint barrel isn’t really a varmint in my opinion, I’d rate it as a heavy standard size which isn’t a bad thing in my view because you get a little more meat in the barrel without it weighing a ton .
The action is typical new Howa and is far from smooth , but I’m sure it will smooth out as time goes by , just like all my other ones have .
I installed a metal aftermarket hinged floorplate magazine instead of the factory plastic box mag and feeding has so far been flawless for the first couple of boxes of ammo .
I have only shot the Factory 108gr ammo and I don’t know if it’s the Rifle or the Ammo but a number of times I’ve experienced a heavy bolt lift . The primers don’t look to bad and there are no extractor marks on the case head , but if I had experience that heavy bolt lift with my handloads I would have been backing of the powder charge a bit .
Initially I thought it might have had something to do with the hot temperature that I was shooting in yesterday here in Central Queensland ( don’t know how hot , but it was “ Hot “ even for here ) but I experienced a few heavy bolt lifts again this morning in the nice cool temperature at 6:00am .
The accuracy however is very good for a cheap brand new rifle with factory ammo .
So far I’ve shot 10 x 3 shot groups ( 3 shot groups because the mag holds that many and the barrel was heating up big time in the hot conditions ) and the average for those 10 groups is 21.8mm .
So the rifle straight out of box is shooting below an inch with factory ammo and that makes me happy because there’s a good chance I will be able to better that with handloads .
Before I shot the rifle I obviously cleaned the barrel and I noticed that it didn’t feel very smooth while running some patches down the tube . Maybe I’m spoilt with some of my other rifles , but it was noticeably rough and catchy .
I shot 5 rounds to get it on paper and then cleaned it with Bore Tech Carbon and Copper cleaners and used a nylon brush and patches.
The barrel was really fouled for just 5 shots and took some cleaning to get it sorted.
I shot 15 more rounds and cleaned again. Same deal it was very fouled and took some serious elbow grease to get it clean .
Another 15 rounds , same thing again but maybe not quite as bad .
I think the rifling and bore of this barrel are rough and not of great quality, but it’s a cheap rifle and it looks like it will shoot , so I’m not complaining.
Im not going to chronograph any shots just yet , because of the rough barrel I have a feeling that it will speed up anyway as it smooths out a bit after having a decent amount of bullets down the tube .
So as it is at the moment it’s all sighted in with the 108’s and I’m just going to shoot and enjoy it while I burn up the factory ammo .
So far I’m pleased I got it :thumbsup:
https://i.imgur.com/n1PTRMi.jpg
Do yourself a favour & replace your nylon brush with a bronze one :)
I supplied a Howa 6ARC to a good customer & he commented about heavy bolt lift as well with factory ammo....
I didn't notice it when I shot half a dozen or so setting the scope up for him
That’s interesting to hear about the bolt lift .Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg
Maybe the ammo is loaded a bit “ Hot “ or the Howa’s are maybe chambered dimensionally / throated in way that creates pressure ?
Do you think a rough bore / rifling etc could create pressure ?
I haven't "seen it for myself" so I'm not sure, it could possibly a mechanical issue with a new rifleQuote:
Originally Posted by Ground Control
It would be strange if it is an over pressure situation with a bolt action given it can be used in an AR
That’s a good point, and the two things that I usually look for in regards to pressure - Primers and extractor marks both don’t seem to be an issue so who knows what’s going on .Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg