7.62x39 (or similar) bolt gun decisions

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10-10-2019, 08:57 PM
Tentman

7.62x39 (or similar) bolt gun decisions

Hello Guys

I recently sold my Howa Mini 7.62x39 . . . it was an accurate, functional little rifle but I just couldn't get to like it (and it was the second time I've done this with a Howa mini), I really don't think they are a bad rifle, they're just not me.

Anyhoo since I sold it I've been taking a friend's 10 year old lad hunting a bit and he's shot the 223 a couple of times with good effect. Now its time to chase a Red and whilst this time I'll be doing the shooting this weekend I'm thinking of the future and bugger it, I just need a nice light suppressed 7.62x39 (or better still something about the same power with a 308 bore, or maybe a Grendel).

So - thoughts on the options, given a Howa doesn't really do it, what are the pro's and cons of the rest - CZ 527, Ruger American plus any others in the sub $1200 sorta bracket ??

Edit @PommyMcPomFace wrote me an excellent PM on his thoughtsbetween the Howa and CZ which would be good to see here . . . .
10-10-2019, 09:24 PM
Steelisreal

Yeah, old @PommyMcPomFace knows some things about some things, but he doesn't like crowds... ;)
10-10-2019, 10:22 PM
Pommy

Copied and pasted, more or less...

There's pros and cons to both. I'd say that the Howas are quite utilitarian in comparison to the CZ's. And the CZ's have a bit more character and could almost be described as a poor man's Sako.

I don't know whether a factory CZ rifle would do the same thing or not - or whether it's the cartridge, my magazine, or artefact from the conversion from 7.62x39 - but my CZ doesn't always feed very well. I've learned to live with it but the Howa just works, all the time, every time.

I lightened the trigger on the Howa to about 1.5lb by snipping the spring. It's nicer, but it still doesn't compare to having the adjustable set trigger on the CZ.

The standard Howa mag system is shite in my opinion. The floorplate of the mags rattle. I had a 223 that didn't feed well because the fit was so sloppy. And wtf is the release catch doing right where your pinky finger wants to go?? The chassis was a big improvement here, because the catch on it is shrouded, it locks it in tightly, and some tape around the base of the mag cures the rattle. The CZ ones are slim profile steel mags and lock in very positively with a catch you can't accidentally press - nothing needs fixing.

This isn't entirely fair, since the Howa's got the factory barrel and the CZ's got a match grade Shillen on it. But I have been very pleased with the Howa - it's been a solid sub-MOA rifle - under 0.5MOA with the right load. But the Shillen somehow still puts it to shame and seems to tolerate much warmer loads.

The bolt is undoubtedly smoother on the Howa. It's a simpler more modern design that I'd trust to be a bit stronger and more durable than the CZ.

Hope that helps.
11-10-2019, 08:11 AM
Hiawatha

I hear you on the Howa mini . I love mine and it shoots and cycles flawlessly. But I cut the mag down to three shots, cut the release lever down by half and put a carbon stock on it. Result is a five pound cracking little rifle with the centre of balance in front of the mag with DPT suppressor on it. The CZ mag sticks way out in the wrong spot and the rifle while a cracker is heavier.
11-10-2019, 11:44 AM
Nugget connaisseur

Zastava does one in 7.62x39 as well on a mini mauser action (m85) wood & blued. But its push feed and not a true controlled feed like the CZ.
11-10-2019, 12:18 PM
Bagheera

Quote:

Originally Posted by mimms2

What's wrong with the 223 for deer?

Troll

Same thing as the 243 but worse
A new hunter should start with the 3006 and move down after a few solid kills.

Just to be clear, the 223 requires neck shots and ability to shoot into 3cm at whatever distance you shoot.
I know you can kill a deer or goat with a good chest shot but often you dont get it that good.
Crack shot experienced hunter like you - yeah. New hunter - nah.
11-10-2019, 12:36 PM
ChrisW

7.62x39 with a .308bore? Sounds like a 300blk might suit.
Similar velocity as 7.62x39 when used with lighter projectiles, then you have the option to shoot heavies suppressed subsonic as well. Would work well in a nice compact gun like it sounds like you are after.
11-10-2019, 12:51 PM
Nugget connaisseur

Or 30BR if he wants a bit more velocity. but then It will be a custom build and more expensive than a factory option.
11-10-2019, 03:05 PM
Steve123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget connaisseur

Or 30BR if he wants a bit more velocity. but then It will be a custom build and more expensive than a factory option.

Let's remember why lots of people are after 762 x 39 bolt guns.
To burn off left over SKS and AK ammo.

Sent from my SM-G390Y using Tapatalk
11-10-2019, 04:48 PM
Simon

Ruger Ranch in 7.62x39 (Takes mini 30 Mags) or 300 Black Out (Takes AR15 Mags).
Light, Accurate and have Threaded Muzzle.
11-10-2019, 04:49 PM
Marty Henry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget connaisseur

Zastava does one in 7.62x39 as well on a mini mauser action (m85) wood & blued. But its push feed and not a true controlled feed like the CZ.

At least you can single feed a push one, a control feed needs to come up from the mag
13-10-2019, 06:35 PM
Micky Duck

if you feed a .223 with a barnes type projectile going 3000fpsish.....its a horse of completely different colour.....up to about 150 yards it has the goods on reds,at bush ranges a chest shot results in bangflop...the 140lb boar that had one slipped in behind nearside leg pulped lungs and broke offside leg would tell you its plenty enough gun.....that said we did the x39mm thing for young fella and really enjoyed its killing ability WITHIN RANGE...we lost a plurry good stag as thought range was 150ish but was a 100yards more......shot went too low and after hour of tracking in rain we lost all trace in the rain.... you could use a .308 down loaded and still be better off.
30-10-2019, 09:53 PM
Luke556

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon

Ruger Ranch in 7.62x39 (Takes mini 30 Mags) or 300 Black Out (Takes AR15 Mags).
Light, Accurate and have Threaded Muzzle.

Yea I really liked the look of the Ruger online, until I handled one today cause that plastic stock to me looks/feels horrible
The trigger guard looks like its a moulded part of that, could it take something like a Boyds laminate stock ? that would certainly make it more usable IMHO, I guess you cant expect too much for a $900 gun ??
Maybe a CZ527 ? am waiting to see what 55six bring in in this cal before I spend any more horseheads dollars on another rifle
30-10-2019, 10:09 PM
swazi

Might sound a bit petty. But what put me off getting a CZ 527 7.62x39 was the synthetic stock. Looks and feels like cheap shit. Looked high and low for one in wood but couldnt find one.
31-10-2019, 07:07 AM
Marty Henry

I've seen a Chinese one bisley I think was the brand name. Interesting rear locking bolt very slick to operate. Usual wood for a Chinese rifle the owner used it as a general purpose gun on a station up the back of Wanganui shooting goats, pigs, deer, bearing ewes etc.
That got me started thinking about converting a 303 to this cal, so far I've only got the donor rifle though.
31-10-2019, 12:49 PM
timattalon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

I've seen a Chinese one bisley I think was the brand name. Interesting rear locking bolt very slick to operate. Usual wood for a Chinese rifle the owner used it as a general purpose gun on a station up the back of Wanganui shooting goats, pigs, deer, bearing ewes etc.
That got me started thinking about converting a 303 to this cal, so far I've only got the donor rifle though.

There is nothing wrong with the 303 as an option, especially as you already have one. most ammo's are already at the same speed as a 7.62x39 (2400-2500fps ish) so trajectory is very similar.

As for reducing recoil, downloading is an option, but I can throw a much easier option at you too.....Decent ear muffs. Believe it or not, the body associates the BANG with the push to the shoulder, and if the BANG gets louder the subconscious associates the louder noise with a bigger push, even if the push remains the same.

So if setting up young shooters, a suppressor and ear muffs tames the recoil to a manageable level without (in most cases) actually making any actual difference to the shove.... all down to the noise reduction and they way the brain works....This is also why when you shoot an animal with a rifle, the recoil does not fel the same as when you ar eat the range. Even though you know it is. The mind is concentrating on "other" things and does not notice the noise as much. (adrenaline helps too....)
31-10-2019, 01:43 PM
Tararua Phil

7.62x39 (or similar) decision

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tentman

Hello Guys

I recently sold my Howa Mini 7.62x39 . . . it was an accurate, functional little rifle but I just couldn't get to like it (and it was the second time I've done this with a Howa mini), I really don't think they are a bad rifle, they're just not me.

Anyhoo since I sold it I've been taking a friend's 10 year old lad hunting a bit and he's shot the 223 a couple of times with good effect. Now its time to chase a Red and whilst this time I'll be doing the shooting this weekend I'm thinking of the future and bugger it, I just need a nice light suppressed 7.62x39 (or better still something about the same power with a 308 bore, or maybe a Grendel).

So - thoughts on the options, given a Howa doesn't really do it, what are the pro's and cons of the rest - CZ 527, Ruger American plus any others in the sub $1200 sorta bracket ??

Edit @PommyMcPomFace wrote me an excellent PM on his thoughtsbetween the Howa and CZ which would be good to see here . . . .

What ranges were you normally hunting at?
I've both a Mini Howa x39 & 6.5 Grendel & apart from the mag catch (Which is a right pain. No real active hunter would design it this way) it works fine for me.Very accurate & light. Shot a red hind @20 mtres yesterday in the neck with Norinco FMJ. Bang/flop. The 300blk & Grendel's good but you'll need to reload as the ammo's expensive compared to x39.
How about a standard 308 down loaded then if you want to hunt longer range you'll have the legs for it?
31-10-2019, 09:25 PM
Tentman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tararua Phil

What ranges were you normally hunting at?
I've both a Mini Howa x39 & 6.5 Grendel & apart from the mag catch (Which is a right pain. No real active hunter would design it this way) it works fine for me.Very accurate & light. Shot a red hind @20 mtres yesterday in the neck with Norinco FMJ. Bang/flop. The 300blk & Grendel's good but you'll need to reload as the ammo's expensive compared to x39.
How about a standard 308 down loaded then if you want to hunt longer range you'll have the legs for it?

Nothing wrong with the Howa's - I just didn't get along with them, I'm not much of a bush hobbit, and with a lad doing the shooting ranges won't be long either, so a lot of cartridges would fill the bill - especially if reloaded appropriately. I've traded for a Rem Model Seven in 260, I have a spare stock for it which I will shorten down a bit for the lad, and I'll reload it at Grendel velocities till he gets comfortable . . . . (and yes , it will be suppressed and I make sure he wears good earmuffs as well on the range)