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Hey Guys,
i want to build me a real light weight hunting rifle for maximum 500m. More inside 300-400m.
7mm08 & 7mm Saum Norma cases are available. Nosler and Hornady Bullets, too.
I want only one of this both calibers 7mm08 or 7mm Saum.
What would you prefer ?
thank you very much.
7x61mm aka .270win lol but a 7mm/08 will be easier all round for you of your two choices.
I have both those cartridges, 708 will do that.
Do you research on what projectile you want to use. You maximum range will be decided by the projectiles minimum terminal velocity on game and you practiced shooting at that range in various weather conditions.
7mm08 with the 162gr will do that.
Well my one did before I rebarreled it.
But a tikka 7mm08 set up with a long action bolt stop and magazine, so I could seat projectile long
Thanks very much. Yes i have read a lot about the 162 eld-m. Also the 140gr Ballistic Tip. Barrel length would be 20“
SAUM brass is not always available, but it will give you extra range for when your skills improve and 500 is no longer your max distance.
7mmsaum is cooler but if you only want to shoot to 500 708 is all you need and cheaper option
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There are plenty of off the shelf light weight 708’s available from Kimber (had one a sweet wee rifle less than 6lb) Sako, Tikka, savage etc so would have thought if you were going “build” a rifle wouldn’t you want to do that for a cartridge like the 7saum which you can’t get off the shelf?
My 7saum started out as a T3 in 7mag laminated stock and its been fun turning it into the Saum new 20” bbl stock mag tally rings etc. 3.3 kg incl suppressor and scope. Not super light but I find the recoil when shooting 180 eldm to be tolerable.
Go middle of the road and get a 284Win. Reasonably good supply of brass.
I had the same question 6 months ago. Could have built a 7-08 or a 7saum as I had actions for both and i chose the 7-08. Looked at both on paper and the 7-08 had plenty of energy out to 600m 1111 foot pounds with a 162 Eldm doing 2520 ( now chronographed). And more importantly the rifle had to be lite, accurate and shoot comfortably with a shortish barrel. I’m really pleased with my choice, the rifle kills really well and is great to shoot, extremely accurate and a pleasure to carry and own.
Welcome to the forum.
I have both the 708 is great low recoil light weight I shoot the 150lrab my barrels only 16” and it’s plenty of grunt I shoot heavier 168-180gn in the saum also great rifles just as light so recoils noticeable
Get ahead of the game, 7PRC. You'll want the option of buying factory ammo to see if the rifle shoots. If a rifle does not shoot decent factory ammo well (Hornady Match/Precison Hunter or Federal Gold Box) then return to sender...Quote:
Originally Posted by Edelweiss
However, 'light weight & long range' are pairings that don't often go together well.
Read Brian Litz and his TOPGUN (theory of precision), rifle weight is analogous with precision, scope and mounting robustness equals accuracy.
How often do you have the opportunity to practise 500m and further?
I have 500 Norma 7mm Saum Brass, i collected and allready a rifle in 7mm08 chambered 8,5 lbs without Scope.
I‘‘m thankfull for your friendly way!
Greetings @Edelweiss,
Being an old Fudd I would go for the 7mm-08 on the basis of long term availability of brass alone. You will need a longer mag and faster twist barrel than standard though if you want to shoot the long pointy projectiles. I am currently using one shooting 600 yards (550 metres) F class and the rifle and cartridge are not the weak links, it is the shooter. The rifle will be lighter for the same recoil as well.
Regards Grandpamac.
Yeah brass availability was a major one for me, saum brass is much harder to come by, and way more expensive
If you want light weight rifle (3kgs or less scoped and ready to go) the 7mm08 will be an easier and capable option for your needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edelweiss
Doesn't sound like brass is a problem for @Edelweiss. Maybe he could bring some to NZ when he comes:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mararoa
Thats a Good Deal, Hunting chamois and goats and pay with brass & bullets 😇Quote:
Originally Posted by Shearer
I run the 162gr Amax @2640fps in my 20" 7/08. 500y is well within it's limits in ideal conditions.
If you’ve got the brass already then go SAUM, you can build a light weight rig just do your homework on choice of action, stock etc. I have a few 7mm’s including 708 & SAUM, in a light weight set up the recoil on SAUM is quite a sharp kick, & definitely a step up on 708. Hence choice of stock is important to help manage recoil & promote accurate shot placement. No point attempting 500 yds if rifle/shooter is not consistently accurate
Personally If doing a proper lightweight platform, I'd go the 7mm08 for shoot ability. 162 at 2600 ish will be great medicine at the intended ranges you are talking about.
Been pretty well covered above -Both will have plenty of horsepower for the ranges you are talking about.
The 7mm08 will be easier to shoot accurately from field positions. The 7saum will require your technique to be "on point" but will buck the wind slightly better at extended range due to extra velocity. You will probably be able to have a single load for the 7mm08 but may need to dual load for the 7saum (close range- tough projectile, long range, soft high BC pill)
7mm08 probably easier to on-sell down the track if that's a consideration...
I reckon this man is onto something. Bit more grunt never hurt and plenty of factory ammo about. Plenty of brassfor 7 prc and 7 saum can be a bit hit and miss to find. I’ve got a saum so I’m allowed to comment!!Quote:
Originally Posted by caberslash
Hi @Edelweiss are you planning to use this in Europe or NZ (or elsewhere).
If you’re thinking about Steinwild or wapiti, 1000 ft.lb (1355 J) at target could be a bit low . For chamois, 7mm08 would be OK.
Have a look at Matunas Optimal Game Weight formula to compare terminal ballistic potential. This gives an output in animal weight and gives more weight to velocity than bullet mass, which seems to match practical experience in longer range hunting. Even so, heavier bullets score better due to higher ballistic coefficients, I think.
You might think that you will fire only a few shots hunting but you will actually need to fire many in practice to achieve / maintain proficiency for 400m shooting. My opinion is that when people talk about shooting past 500m, they are talking about shooting targets, which is sn interest you will develop if you go down this path.
How popular are those two cartridges in Germany ? Do many people still use the 7x64 ? Is the 7mm08 used more than the 7x57 now ?
Was in same boat as you trying to decide
I whent 7prcW (6.5 prc neck up to 7mm)
So plenty of brass options and shooting the 162 elds very well. Simmilar as SAUM
Load development still in progress but I'm very happy so far.
Attachment 262771
162eldm from short 17” barrel 7/08 = 2500- 2575fps
162eldm from short 20” barrel saum, prc, rem mag = 2900 - 3000ish
At 500m with 10mph wind there’s only .25 Moa difference in wind deflection.
That’s about 1 1/4 inch on target.
I rekon choose what one makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside.
in Germany we shoot 7x57 and 7x64 thats true ;-) But in Germany people think 7x57 is for 150m and 7x64 is for 250m ;-) for 300m people they need a 300winmag better a weatherby ;-) and discuss if it works on 33pound animal ;-)
some years ago i met a businessman who has ordered a 300 win mag with mouzle break (wrong installed so the hot heat go every time on the left side off and the shooting group went right) and a 25 scoped for hunting roe deer in poland until 200m. was funny to look at him by shooting the scope in. When I told him that I had shot all deer/red stags with .243 for the last 5 years, he didn't believe me.
The difference is about 4 inches in a full value 10mph wind at 500m.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPEARONZ
Attachment 262825
Thank you, i will overthink it. Lots of good arguments for the 7mm08, but also about a total custom rifle and the SAUM.
And its a real unique thing here. All People want to help and give the best information. In our german forums there everybody means he is the king and now it better etc..
And you guys are friendly and helpful. More of a good community, just as you wish. Thanks for it !!!
Attachment 262823
Just grab a tikka in 7x64. Factory twist is good. Shoot 162s, for longer range. upgrade the stock if you wish. Spend the savings on hunting. And you can use premium rws factory ammo as a back up.
The sale of the other brass will cover the cost. I reckon they give away once fired x 64 brass in Bavaria at the shooting ranges?
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From my experience the same thinking also applies in Austria as I used to hunt with my wife’s uncle over there, he hunted everything with a .300 WM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edelweiss
I shot my first roe with a 7x64 which is surprisingly small, a .222 / .223 would be ample but isn’t allowed under their hunting laws
According to my ballistic app a 162eldm at 2600fps produces 2440 ftlb of energy at the muzzle
7saum can push a 180eldm at 2850fps +/- without too much difficulty at 500 metres your looking at 2567 ftlbs of energy on arrival.
Sold the 162’s and grabbed 3 boxes of the 180’s achieving mid 2800’s with RL26 in norma brass. Picked up 50 ADG which i have yet to shoot
Have a limbsaver on one end that tames things well just added one of DPT’s new muzzle breaks to the other end cause i just had to have the shiny new toy- not tried the break yet
At extended range i’m more worried about unexpected wind drift then I am energy on target. For that reason at 500 I prefer the saum but both will do it. Make the decision based on recoil IMO. If you are happy with a bit more kick and can still shoot it just as accurate then the saum will do it better and safer. If not, then the smaller 708 will be fine too.
The 180eldm’s BC sees it hold onto energy really well and for the same reason its very good in the wind ��
What powder and projectile are you using?Quote:
Originally Posted by riflegus
I'm doing load development with 2209 and 175gr berger elite hunter atm
162 eldm, 2209. Waiting on dies to arrive to start propper load development.Quote:
Originally Posted by lau lau
Imagine how good that will shoot when you finish installation of your ringsQuote:
Originally Posted by riflegus
That's how I like them ! Save weight ��Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dicko
Only pic I have in my phone ! Obviously took it before shooting.
Will shoot great as I've load with wrong powder, wrong dies, and few other things not 100%
