Sorry rambo, but that is complete bullsh*t.Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo-6mmrem
Printable View
Sorry rambo, but that is complete bullsh*t.Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo-6mmrem
You mean with a bolt action if you miss a deer, it doesn't cross your mind to load up and have another go?
It all boils down to the nut behind the butt.
I don't wanna start a shit fight( or do I? :D ) but it seems to be the "older" people that never have much good to say about a semi. Never heard a good word about semis from my dad or granddads. A .303 is all you need blah blah
I personally find the ability to put a much faster second round into a critter a very big plus ethically if it's needed to reduce suffering.
Just because you have a semi does not automatically (pun intended) = spraying rounds.
I reckon you're onto something, Toby. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby
I reckon that the invention of the bolt action was probably looked down on disapprovingly by the oldies with their muskets, too... :D:D
People who shot muskets and Martini's probably said the same kind of shit about Mausers and Lee Enfields.
Thanks Toby, I like semis so I can't be in the "older" bracket.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby
Ebf.
Why in your opinion, do semi automatic firearms require more stringent control?
With you on that. The majority of the problems have been with people who should not have had access to any firearms. Mostly the police had been tipped off well before hand and chosen to not act; as in the case of David Gray (SP?) and Hans Moulier (SP?).Quote:
Originally Posted by hanse
Who's butt ya behind? And stop picking on us older gentlemen or we'll turn viral on ya. I sooner be in front of @Happy with his really nice AR than in front of @Blaser with that fucken BLASER at 350 metres. Personally I love a bolt action, but Happy nearly bent me when I had a few rounds out of his AR I could get into it there's nothing wrong with whatever burns ya! Just stay together!:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby
I'd be more worried for the guy behind the blaser :D :D All this talk about bolts and plastic washers
Seen it plenty of times with semi-auto 22 users bunny shooting! Even did it myself once just for a laugh. Might be different with centrefires, ammo costs a bit more...Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo-6mmrem
Personally I prefer bolt actions the same way I prefer a manual gearbox in a car - the feel of operating the mechanism is part of the experience.
Agreed, the development of semi automatic rifles for warfare must surely have been because they were more effective at laying down sustained fire than bolt actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmatix
Here it is Toby(a good word from an old fart that is). Semi Automatic rifles are great. I used a 7.62 SLR with aperture sights in my time in the army (looooong time ago) and most soldiers of the day could easily shoot a five round group that you could cover with a matchbox.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby
Ryan, because with a semi it is possible to keep up a sustained rate of rapid fire, especially with high capacity magazines. If I had to choose a firearm to defend myself against a horde, that is exactly what I would want, unfortunately it is also what makes them so attractive to the Rambo types.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan
To state this in a different way, if you have some nutcase intent on a spree killing or a crim thinking about an armed home invasion, would you rather they have a single shot or bolt action, or a semi ;) or to bring it closer to home for guys on this forum, if some numpty takes a shot at you in the bush without identifying their target, would you like to be on the receiving end of a semi ?
I think there are very valid reasons for owning and using semis, I just don't think that plinking, or "I like shooting shit" is a valid enough reason...
I think it is more than possible to hunt without semis, I think you can do duck-shooting quite successfully with twin shotties.
In all my years of shooting (military, recreation and competitive) I have yet to come across a person that does not start blasting away when handed a semi. :D
You could quite easily take that further and say, you don't really need any firearm, for any reason, in our society.
So given the way the licensing system works here (and with out starting a fight), do you think there should be "degrees" of "fit and properness"? In my book you either are or aren't.Quote:
Originally Posted by ebf
Disclaimer: up till this week I hunted with a semi but decided I needed more horsepower :D and it would not matter if the "numpty" used a semi or anything else the result would be the same, and sadly in fact it has been. :(
You could also add that most of the numpties or what you may call them, who shoot at you in the bush with a bolt action, tend to have a pretty good track record of finding the mark with the first shot.
Feel Felt Found EBF . I know how you feel I felt the same way. I found that that's bull. We are possibly around the same age .Quote:
Originally Posted by ebf
I wondered why the f... Anyone would want one. I tried one. Get your self an AR My last two fallow one hind one neat stag took one shot each and we're moving Not running moving . Sorry are those statements mindset or factual experiences in NZ that you have personally witnessed and if so you hangin with the wrong hunters !!
Hunters that turn the hunt into a competitive event are not suitable to have an FAL or any firearm. Competitors should know better or get told real quick. Military should be looked after by their own as well and disciplined or changed to suitable other duties . It's all part of the bigger picture. I reckon you ll find there are F all firearms incidents of stupidity with semis . If there are throw away the keys to the cell. Oopsy bit ranty sorry :thumbsup:
I'm with Happy. Didn't see a need for them, then I tried one. Now I won't be without one. Accurate, balanced, easy to use, easy to fix/modify/upgrade.
I also don't see much point in putting restrictions on those of us who already follow the rules. People who break the rules and commit crimes with guns aren't going to stop because of one extra restriction are they?
Happy, I have owned semi centrefire in the past. I have a Marlin 795 for bunny busting at the moment.
Mikee, I see firearms licensing much like driver licensing. Would dearly like to see a practical competency component, and not so much degrees of fit and properness, but levels of licensing. Truck / bus driver example of earlier.
I know this whole discussion is around semis, and a lot of you guys feel quite strongly about it, but let's look at it in the context of handguns. Do you understand the reasons for more restrictions on handguns ? Or do you see handguns and semi rifles in the same light and believe anyone should be able to have one ?
Exactly right.Quote:
Originally Posted by scaggly
Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2
Totally. And that last sentence sounds a little dramatic - not anybody can own a semi auto rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by ebf
I reckon that's a whole different subject requiring different rules for one reason only and that's the ability for concealed carry which means things can escalate way too fastQuote:
Originally Posted by ebf
Back to topic are you experiencing Rambo behavior in NZ on a regular basis or is it off shore experiences that apply ? Man with handgun in a way better posse to go downtown incognito don't you think ?
Have you owned a good quality AR ? Or taken one hunting in NZ in the right situation. Do the paperwork send the permit I ll send you mine for a coupla weeks. Or we could go to a private block I know of in Wanganui and you could have a total hands on look at it ?
And again EBF I am not trying to argue too muchQuote:
Originally Posted by ebf
but
Yes, yes and again Fit and Proper is Fit and Proper, maybe be different security requirements.
Just because I have been vetted 3 times and have regularly inspected security does that actually make me more "fitter and properer" and anyone else who has a std licence.
Put the other way how can someone deemed not "fit and proper" on an endorsement application be still considered fit and proper to retain the std license they already hold?
Happy, range behaviour. Very rarely see other people in the bush, mostly go mid week.
No AR. Had FN FAL and M1 carbine, never really been a fan of 223 (holes are too bloody tiny :D)
Wangers sounds like a plan (shot the fallow spiker there last year) will talk to you offline.
And my apologies to you EBF if I sounded a bit ranty but its just theone thing I have the most trouble understanding (the whole fit and proper thing)
Mikee, for pistol you also need to be a member of a PNZ affiliated club, the club has to say that you are ok, and you have to keep competing if you want your renewal to go thru not so ?
The club is vouching for you in terms of having shown enough dedication to attend shoots for 6 months, safe range behaviours and good safety record.
I like that kind of system, coz it weeds out some of the Rambo types and guys who make snap decisions.
It also weeds out many possible members who would like to own and shoot a pistol but simply cannot fullfil the no of range visits required.:thumbdown:Quote:
Originally Posted by ebf
Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2
I know this cause I have had my B for 20 years (about to let it go though) but I still cant see how it means I am more fit and proper.Quote:
Originally Posted by ebf
I do have no issue with the way handguns are dealt with as they are easily concealable and really not that suitable for anything other than target shooting
as an aside the events that give me the most "hebies" are the annual duck shooters eye opener shoots, Once a year shooters with semi's they are not familiar enough with make me cringe.Barrels waving all over the show etc
Not sure that affiliation thing is gospel these days, think there are a couple clubs not affiliated that have been sanctioned. Also I'd be interested to know if any prospective B catter has been rejected by his club after the probie period due to unsafe practice etc and not ended up with a b endorsement. If any haven't, then the system is not working. Reason I bring that up is I have seen some dodgy shite at more than one club I was a member of. Usually from "imports", and I've thought, "how the f did they get through...?" Now if the clubs are doing their job properly, there would have to be a pertcentage of people not being sponsored through to their B, right? If everyone that try's gets their B, it's a mockery of the process.Quote:
Originally Posted by ebf
The clubs will collectively decide within their own units what is and isn't acceptable conduct. I can only imagine that the majority of licensed gun owners who bother to go through the B endorsement process, aren't the type who will stand out as dodgy. I don't really know what other peoples definition of dodgy is. I have witnessed certain clicks in certain clubs throwing a tanty because they think the actions/conduct of one half put the sport at risk. It's usually just chicken little bullshit from people who can't handle change.
When I was on the committee of a pistol club we turned away a few people during the probationary period,and said we didn't want some others who transferred to us already endorsed once we got to know them. We also had people who made it thru our probationary period who seemed to change once they had there own pistol at home-some bucked up,some got shipped out.
A common trend was folks trying to just show up to sign the book.a fairly high percentage of our clubs "rejects" just joined another club.
We must meet some day. I'm a shocker for firing a semi just like a bolt action and use just as many shots with either. The semi does give me a quicker shot at a second animal or easier cycling in an awkward position (firing out of a vehicle on a farm). The semis are good and practical for a lot of situations. I have used an AR and I was impressed, but I mainly like to hunt with a bolt action in rifle and a semi in shotgun.Quote:
Originally Posted by ebf
I've just gone and brought my first bolt action rifle in over 20 years, maybe I do need help after all :DQuote:
Originally Posted by gadgetman
Its an interesting discussion so ill lend my views.
I believe that E cats should very very tightly controlled. You should only be allowed one for a very valid reason not just cause you want one.
The recent availability to buy AR s as an A cat was in my view stupidity. These made weapons of this nature much more accessible to nasty bad people. Not all firearms owners are suitable firearms owners they have just never been caught at much and therefore the police have no reason to refuse them a licence. For example you could waltz into your gun store buy an AR and walk down the road and sell it to your local Mongrel Mob dealer for a tidy profit. They file off the number and there is nothing tying it back to the guy who bought it. He just says he sold it to a guy who had a licence and no proof is required that this happened. With an E gun this cannot happen as they are kept track off.
New Zealand black market is not quite like the states where they have access to racks of uzis and AKs and Id like this to stay that way. The easy access of these guns as an A Cat means that more of them filter down into criminal hands weather they are sold to them or they are stolen from under secured A cat safes etc. Getting a large capacity mag is an easy step from there.
Its all just a numbers game. The more of these guns out there increases the chances that sooner or later some nut job is gonna have his cheese slide off his cracker and go all Colombine. Then we are all fucked. As then knee jerk politicians WILL jerk all there knees at once and semis will all be gone like in Aussie.
The fact of the matter is that guns like this in the wrong hands are fucken scary. Listening to Jan Molenar rattle of full clips one after the other was enough to make you piss your pants. A bolt gun with 3 bullets in it just isnt that scary and is much easier to deal with from a tactics perspective.
I have an E cause I want one not because I need it to do a job and I love having it.
I trust myself to own a gun like this I just don't trust everyone else to own one.
Well that's good to know, that for at least one club, the club vetting process is actually taken seriously and filters out some punters.Quote:
Originally Posted by res
"I'm the best gun owner in the world, everyone else is shit. As such, only I should have these types of guns."Quote:
Originally Posted by Wired
The hypocrisy, it burns.
don't get me wrong ether I own a mix of bolts, single shots (including muskets ) and a few semis and I enjoy shooting with them all was simply seeing what people thought that's it
Not everyone but some are.Quote:
Originally Posted by AzumitH
As for Hypocrisy........maybe a little. Just saying I want a high level of control with these types of firearms. I truly believe it will pay off in the long run.
I think you miss understand me, apart from one notable exception I feel the whole exercise was pointless.we just had to do it. In fact I feel there should only be one level of licence(if there should be licensing at all) as I fail to see how there can be anything more than "fit and proper".Quote:
Originally Posted by ishoot10s
The concept that one poster put fwd that he was ok to have e style guns but others are not stagers me.