Thread: Adjustable L.O.P, or Collapsible?

Where's the line drawn? Seeing a few Magpul PRS stocks etc. around on ARs etc. I wonder if a UBR is "adjustable" enough to not be "collapsible". Probably not. Looks cool though.

Funny you bring that up. In the NSA presidents opinion, a 6 position AR stock is an adjustable stock, not a Telescoping stock like on an MP5A3. It doesn't make the rifle more concealable, you still have to shoulder fire it etc, it just adjusts length of pull. The police don't see it that way though, so it will have to be tested in court. I have seen a few guys rolling collapsible stocks on A cat builds with that opinion in mind. It might seem obvious to some, but the police have been wrong before. No I'm not trying to start a shit fight, just saying what I've heard and seen recently. It is an interesting question. The PRS is pretty similar to the OEM H&K SL8 stock. The UBR has a portion which doesn't move upon LOP adjustment. It will be up to a judge to draw the line.

That was my thoughts. The UBR is sort of a fixed stock with an adjustable butt. Same as a PRS just with more adjustment. Interesting to hear about that. I'm not really sure I want to be the one to test it in court. In fact I'm sure I don't want to be the one.

Richard's summary:

The 6 position adjustable stocks for AR15s... i.e. the magpul ones, are not deemed an MSSA stock. The reasoning is based on a rule of statutory interpretation. This rule provides that words forming a group or list of items colour each other's meaning. The MSSA stock is either folding or telescopic. You have to consider what "folding" means to determine what collapsible means; you are looking for the commonality of the two. In this case the commonality is that a folding stock puts the firearm into a machine pistol configuration where the stock is not physically contributing to the handling of the firearm when it is folded away. In similar vein, a telescopic stock of the type used by an MP5 is not used when retracted. By comparison, a AR15 6 position butt is placed to the shoulder no matter where it is adjusted to. This is (as Joe likes to say) "congruent" with the intention of Parliament.. to restrict military features THAT HAVE NO VALID CIVILIAN PURPOSE..... clearly lenght adjustment in a stock is a valid civilian purpose.

A telescopic butt-stock for the purpose of qualifying as a MSSA part is a stock that renders the firearm in a machine pistol configuration. A MP5 stock is a typical example.

I asked this question of police and was advised that their opinion is that a 6 position AR15 stock is an MSSA part. I told them they were wrong, that I had one on my SL8 and if they didnt like it, they knew where I was and what size handcuffs I wear...... they have taken no action.

The SL8 standard stock has a "telescopic" butt stock (with... you guessed it... 6 positions of adjustment) There is no difference between that type of stock, which police reckon is not an MSSA part, and a magpul 6 position stock.

....Sure to ruffle some feathers.

Cool. Someone arrest him and get it sorted in court.



I want nice light stocks that are short enough to be properly usable, not retard A2 length

Originally Posted by gimp

I want nice light stocks that are short enough to be properly usable, not retard A2 length

Do you have really short arms or something? A2 stocks give a very standard length of pull very similar to most factory .22s through to factory boltguns, its a one size fits most. You could try an ACE entry level stock?

Yeah but you can shoot a carbine differently to a .22, this ain't your grandpappy's hunting' rahful. Straight behind the gun doesn't work with an A2.

And yeah that's what I've got

Originally Posted by gimp

Yeah but you shoot a carbine differently

How so?

Ive shot my fair share of AR's in both carbine and rifle length and 762/556 and standard A2 length has been fine for me (long arms)
Anything shorter and i find myself hunkered down over the reciever which is not a good position to shoot from anyway.

The PRS is micro adjustable - you set it and forget it. We took the opinion when importing that it is adjustable in the same way any wooden stock could be adjusted with a hacksaw. Besides there were no issue with customs bringing them in.
Does anyone know if the collapsable arguement is being tested in the NSA statement of claims?

Originally Posted by Towely

How so?

Ive shot my fair share of AR's in both carbine and rifle length and 762/556 and standard A2 length has been fine for me (long arms)
Anything shorter and i find myself hunkered down over the reciever which is not a good position to shoot from anyway.

Different techniques exist th


More squared off behind the gun. Recoil straight back into your body, faster for multiple shots. Which is the point of a semi-auto right?

Also meant to present your plate of your body armor for full protection from whatever you're shooting at etc but that stuff ain't relevant to me

It's an effective stance that I like, better than the normal bladed stance but requires a shorter stock

It's me. I'm that guy, who watched a magpul dvd

I wouldnt test it, there is still the "Check your stock" thumbhole Ecat poster hanging pride of place in my local Police station.

didnt seem to bother the staff when I told them that it was over turned in court.

that magpul tactile carbine video was pretty good,

Fair call, the guy in the photo standing has the buttstock where it should be anyway, no matter what you are firing. Although hes still cramped up and its forced his elbows down.
The entry level ACE stocks are shorter than A2 length.

Yeah I know they are, have one, etc

Re: 'cramped up' the idea is for your body provide a solid platform so the gun stays on target


I'm no expert, just watched a DVD, but it makes sense/works

I suppose eveybodys got their own opinion! I took some guidance from a Jerry Miculeck dvd about 3-4 years ago and his opinion was opposite when it came to stance regarding elbows and "hunkering down" into the rifle. Completely agree with the buttstock being as close to centre mass as possible.
I guess you could just get a carbine stock and pin it to its shortest setting.