Where's the line drawn? Seeing a few Magpul PRS stocks etc. around on ARs etc. I wonder if a UBR is "adjustable" enough to not be "collapsible". Probably not. Looks cool though.
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Where's the line drawn? Seeing a few Magpul PRS stocks etc. around on ARs etc. I wonder if a UBR is "adjustable" enough to not be "collapsible". Probably not. Looks cool though.
Funny you bring that up. In the NSA presidents opinion, a 6 position AR stock is an adjustable stock, not a Telescoping stock like on an MP5A3. It doesn't make the rifle more concealable, you still have to shoulder fire it etc, it just adjusts length of pull. The police don't see it that way though, so it will have to be tested in court. I have seen a few guys rolling collapsible stocks on A cat builds with that opinion in mind. It might seem obvious to some, but the police have been wrong before. No I'm not trying to start a shit fight, just saying what I've heard and seen recently. It is an interesting question. The PRS is pretty similar to the OEM H&K SL8 stock. The UBR has a portion which doesn't move upon LOP adjustment. It will be up to a judge to draw the line.
That was my thoughts. The UBR is sort of a fixed stock with an adjustable butt. Same as a PRS just with more adjustment. Interesting to hear about that. I'm not really sure I want to be the one to test it in court. In fact I'm sure I don't want to be the one.
Richard's summary:
The 6 position adjustable stocks for AR15s... i.e. the magpul ones, are not deemed an MSSA stock. The reasoning is based on a rule of statutory interpretation. This rule provides that words forming a group or list of items colour each other's meaning. The MSSA stock is either folding or telescopic. You have to consider what "folding" means to determine what collapsible means; you are looking for the commonality of the two. In this case the commonality is that a folding stock puts the firearm into a machine pistol configuration where the stock is not physically contributing to the handling of the firearm when it is folded away. In similar vein, a telescopic stock of the type used by an MP5 is not used when retracted. By comparison, a AR15 6 position butt is placed to the shoulder no matter where it is adjusted to. This is (as Joe likes to say) "congruent" with the intention of Parliament.. to restrict military features THAT HAVE NO VALID CIVILIAN PURPOSE..... clearly lenght adjustment in a stock is a valid civilian purpose.
A telescopic butt-stock for the purpose of qualifying as a MSSA part is a stock that renders the firearm in a machine pistol configuration. A MP5 stock is a typical example.
I asked this question of police and was advised that their opinion is that a 6 position AR15 stock is an MSSA part. I told them they were wrong, that I had one on my SL8 and if they didnt like it, they knew where I was and what size handcuffs I wear...... they have taken no action.
The SL8 standard stock has a "telescopic" butt stock (with... you guessed it... 6 positions of adjustment) There is no difference between that type of stock, which police reckon is not an MSSA part, and a magpul 6 position stock.
....Sure to ruffle some feathers.
Cool. Someone arrest him and get it sorted in court.
I want nice light stocks that are short enough to be properly usable, not retard A2 length
Do you have really short arms or something? A2 stocks give a very standard length of pull very similar to most factory .22s through to factory boltguns, its a one size fits most. You could try an ACE entry level stock?Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
Yeah but you can shoot a carbine differently to a .22, this ain't your grandpappy's hunting' rahful. Straight behind the gun doesn't work with an A2.
And yeah that's what I've got
Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
How so?
Ive shot my fair share of AR's in both carbine and rifle length and 762/556 and standard A2 length has been fine for me (long arms)
Anything shorter and i find myself hunkered down over the reciever which is not a good position to shoot from anyway.
The PRS is micro adjustable - you set it and forget it. We took the opinion when importing that it is adjustable in the same way any wooden stock could be adjusted with a hacksaw. Besides there were no issue with customs bringing them in.
Does anyone know if the collapsable arguement is being tested in the NSA statement of claims?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towely
Different techniques exist th
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb...lhdo1_1280.jpg
More squared off behind the gun. Recoil straight back into your body, faster for multiple shots. Which is the point of a semi-auto right?
Also meant to present your plate of your body armor for full protection from whatever you're shooting at etc but that stuff ain't relevant to me
It's an effective stance that I like, better than the normal bladed stance but requires a shorter stock
It's me. I'm that guy, who watched a magpul dvd
I wouldnt test it, there is still the "Check your stock" thumbhole Ecat poster hanging pride of place in my local Police station.
didnt seem to bother the staff when I told them that it was over turned in court.
that magpul tactile carbine video was pretty good,
Fair call, the guy in the photo standing has the buttstock where it should be anyway, no matter what you are firing. Although hes still cramped up and its forced his elbows down.
The entry level ACE stocks are shorter than A2 length.
Yeah I know they are, have one, etc
Re: 'cramped up' the idea is for your body provide a solid platform so the gun stays on target
I'm no expert, just watched a DVD, but it makes sense/works
I suppose eveybodys got their own opinion! I took some guidance from a Jerry Miculeck dvd about 3-4 years ago and his opinion was opposite when it came to stance regarding elbows and "hunkering down" into the rifle. Completely agree with the buttstock being as close to centre mass as possible.
I guess you could just get a carbine stock and pin it to its shortest setting.
It is not as comfortable shooting like that but has it's merits in the tactical sense, almost irrelevant among civilians. I find the best thing about it is that you can walk forwards and backwards easier with rifle aimed than the bladed stance.
The whole MSSA thing with the police is that it is about the kind of people that style of weapon attracts, not necessarily the functionality of it. eg, flash suppressors.
When do the the Arms Act amendments come out? I would be a little nervous if I had an AR
The kind of people we are selling AR15's to would generally have higher than average income or are pure enthusiasts - as would be expected with a gun price starting at 2k. They generally take the sport seriously and spend a lot of time at the range - as indicated by the number of referals we get from those who frequent the range. We are also selling a fair few guns to current millitary, navy, airforce and police officers as there own personal toys. I remember one customer from one of the military bases, to which we delivered, stating that he wanted to get hands on experience with an AR before deployment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage1
Im not sure why the police would be concerned about the customers we attract - if anything they are the most desirable gun owners of all.
That and that exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage1
Just look at what Jan Molenarr was collecting - there was a certain style of weapon for sure. I would be very surprised not to see a total slapdown of the current state of play when the amendment is made. The more people take the piss the more evidence the feds have that people are simply taking the piss :x_x:
You can pretend all you like that collapsible stocks and other military parts are "for 3 gun shooting" etc but I dont see too many people taking body armour on and off during competitions? It would be sad to see all semi's go e'cat or get further restricted just so a few people can score cool points with their mates for having the closest to illegal (and beyond) firearm they possibly can?
I never said, or meant, that all people who buy ARs are that type of person. But the crazy few are attracted to those guns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Digit
That's why you need a license to buy themQuote:
Originally Posted by Savage1
e:fuck it
Yup these threads always result in useful discussion
For eg
(M4S) ACE M4 SOCOM Stock
Described by manufacturer as "Adjustable length of pull, adjusts from 7.5” to 9.5”"
if you got something like that and perminantly glued it to a set length and removed the adjusty button from it, It would no longer be an adjustable stock
depends if you are acually looking to have a stock of a set length or just fishing for a loop hole
I've already got a stock of the appropriate length, just got curious
Well you can be sure that there will be a nice clear definition coming in the amendment and a LOT of pistol grips and non compliant stocks will be going cheap on TM! Its perfectly clear what the "intention" of the MSSA law was and its looks perfectly clear that the amendment will restore the rules to bring owners back in line with that intention. (no i dont support this blah blah)
Buy shares in B&C thumbholes and or Benelli MR1's ?
MR1's are shit. So are B&C stocks. Which there aren't enough of to go around. The new rules would allow any make and model to be deemed an MSSA anyway so chances are any AR's or AK's etc with thumbhole stocks will just end up going that way. As in Canada, they would be restricted by name. Of course the cat is out of the bag and there are probably a shit load of AR's which will simply "dissappear", maybe in a tragic boating accident. At least we've had a couple years of fun. May as well pick away at it while we can.
Id say alot would just be converted to E-cat.
Its what Id do.
on the bright side a whole heap of cheep ar15s that people can nolonger own may be on the horizon
and a whole heap more would be sold into the underworld which would be alot less than Ideal. but as they are not tracked they dont exist once the original owners sell them on
Well if there is any sanity left we will be given the option to chuck them on E
I think you will find this is the case - the horse has well and truly bolted with Ar's. If the Police are to be responsible they will need to give owners the option else they risk a massive move of AR's off the radar. They know this.
I'm sure they will allow them to transfer over to E-cat and waive the licensing fee for a while. They won't make the E-cat licence any easier to get however.
I have heard that it is easy to change over a rifle to ecat. has anyone done it? is there a cost involved?
Sure its easy as! First go find the cheapest E cat you can -I see E cat SKS's go for around $600 so that's you best bet so buy one of them. Take it in to the Arms officer and he will destroy it and and add what ever rifle you want to the register.
so one must be destroyed to add one to the regester?
I was of the understanding that it was just a form to fill out
Go back in time to 2009 and put a thumb hole stock on it.
That matter is currently before the courts. If the defence loses they may have to open their check book...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill999