Thread: Anyone else disappointed with M4s?

I have had a few goes on an M4 and I have to say I am quite disappointed. They are nice to fire but locking the bolt to the rear is quite awkward and requires two hands, which is a pain in the arse with stoppages. I thought this would be quite an issue for a combat rifle. Is there something I am overlooking? I also found the cocking handle to be to far back making it a little awakward to use while rifle is in the shoulder. I am surprised these rifles are so popular, is it just because the Americans use them?. However I did find it nice to shoot. I was looking at buying one but I might have a look at the H&K sl8 or a steyr. Any thoughts on the SL8?

Originally Posted by Savage1

Any thoughts on the SL8?

Overpriced and overrated BEFORE $1999 Ar15's arrived...

I kinda miss mine on really boring days but would probably flick it again after picking it up once

Would love to have an AUG after having a go with one, but the AR is probably a "better" rifle and comes in at 1/2 the price (still want one though )

If you want you can install a battery assist device which will allow you to lock the bolt open and close it with your trigger finger, while manipulating the charging handle with your left. It stops it being a three handed exercise. I don't run one though, I personally don't think its an issue. The bolt locks to the rear on an empty mag anyway, which is far more important in a combat rifle as you say than trying to do it with an empty mag well. You get used to the charging handle, but it can be improved with a tac latch or gun fighter type charging handle. It certainly has a different battery of arms compared to some semi's but once you get use to it everything becomes second nature.

The AR charging handle is in a terrible place. The forward assist is a pretty useless thing generally. The bolt catch is in the wrong place.


Other than that, they're pretty sweet as long as you get one that isn't shit and/or a retarded configuration.



The SL8 is awful in terms of ergonimics, non-modular, heavy, realllllly expensive...

Originally Posted by Savage1

They are nice to fire but locking the bolt to the rear is quite awkward and requires two hands, which is a pain in the arse with stoppages.

What do you mean stoppages? Was the rifle malfunctioning? Myself I don't have a problem locking the bolt back as I do have 2 hands. Hold the rifle with the left hand around the magwell using the thumb to operate the catch while pulling the charging handle back, easy as.. Not sure why you would want to operate the charging handle why the rifle is shouldered either?

Originally Posted by Savage1

I have had a few goes on an M4 and I have to say I am quite disappointed. They are nice to fire but locking the bolt to the rear is quite awkward and requires two hands, which is a pain in the arse with stoppages. I thought this would be quite an issue for a combat rifle. Is there something I am overlooking? I also found the cocking handle to be to far back making it a little awakward to use while rifle is in the shoulder. I am surprised these rifles are so popular, is it just because the Americans use them?. However I did find it nice to shoot. I was looking at buying one but I might have a look at the H&K sl8 or a steyr. Any thoughts on the SL8?

Join TF or do remedial TOETS mate. They are as fast to remedy as any assault rifle known. Sl8's are accurate and thats all thats going for them. A M4 will do anything a Styer can do. The AUG is a bullpup system which allows it to seem shorter, but it is just as heavy. Triggers on the styer are shit and will never be as good as the AR's

Hi Savage

When you operate the charging handle do you grab it with bother finger either side of the reciever of just hit it with your index finger on your left hand?

It was when it tried to double feed or similar, need to lock bolt to the rear then drop magazine. Seems to be a lot easier to do on a AUG. I'm talking more about in a combat role where you don't want to be juggling around with a weapon using fine motor skills, while loaded with adrenaline, to lock a bolt open.

May need to operate bolt with rifle in shoulder if you have a misfire or accidentily have an empty chamber.

I was doing immediate action drills with it and TOETS.

I just hit the charging handle with my index finger on my left hand.

You seen the Magpul tactical carbine Vids?

They show clearing stoppages fast.

So does the guy who developed the Katana AR15 from Sons of Guns fame, all real quick as clearing them.

Eh? The I A is cock, hook and look. If ya have a double feed ya drop the mag then clear the obstruction replace the mag and recock or hit the bolt release. I am confused.
I A's and toets are done so that in a "combat situation" ya dont drop your bundle. Steyr is easier (depending on experience) as you say because you can lock the working parts to the rear with the cocking handle.
I am happy with either or.

Originally Posted by gimp

The AR charging handle is in a terrible place. The forward assist is a pretty useless thing generally. The bolt catch is in the wrong place.


Other than that, they're pretty sweet as long as you get one that isn't shit and/or a retarded configuration.



The SL8 is awful in terms of ergonimics, non-modular, heavy, realllllly expensive...

The charging handle is in a very usefull out of the way place,its simple to operate and tbh thats where I would want it, the forward assist is very usefull having had the odd stoppage or when the bolt doesn't quite flick far enough

their so simple to operate,all i do before I go hunting is open the bolt on a empty mag,take the mag and load it up and then once I see game I flick the bolt release and I'm ready to go!

and I'll make a point of this: they can outshoot bolt guns.so the myth about bolt guns being more accurate isn't so true anymore....
I'll provide photo evidence if need be and bear this in mind the groups were shot quick,like enough to get sight picture back on target...

I'm not saying the semi's are superior but what I'm saying is that semis have a fair few advantages,in saying that though I'll always own both!

Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter

The charging handle is in a very usefull out of the way place,its simple to operate and tbh thats where I would want it, the forward assist is very usefull having had the odd stoppage or when the bolt doesn't quite flick far enough

their so simple to operate,all i do before I go hunting is open the bolt on a empty mag,take the mag and load it up and then once I see game I flick the bolt release and I'm ready to go!

and I'll make a point of this: they can outshoot bolt guns.so the myth about bolt guns being more accurate isn't so true anymore....
I'll provide photo evidence if need be and bear this in mind the groups were shot quick,like enough to get sight picture back on target...

I'm not saying the semi's are superior but what I'm saying is that semis have a fair few advantages,in saying that though I'll always own both!

It is not a myth mate. Its due to tolerances and design. Am I to assume your groups (photo evidence) are in the .1-.2 of an inch? Impressive.

one is 3 rounds going 3/4 through each other across and the other is the same just up/down.....

and its using American Eagle 50gr JHP ammo at $90 for 100 hahahaha!

Thats bloody good mate. I know they are/can be very accurate. They will/should hold their accuracy for larger strings as well. But due to a number of reasons across the board a well set up bolt gun will beat a semi for precision. If autos were as accurate they would be used more for sniping due to rate of fire. Which is not a good thing for a sniper but there are times it would come in handy to surpress or halt forward movement at a cost of the snipers position.

Originally Posted by R93

Thats bloody good mate. I know they are/can be very accurate. They will/should hold their accuracy for larger strings as well. But due to a number of reasons across the board a well set up bolt gun will beat a semi for precision. If autos were as accurate they would be used more for sniping due to rate of fire. Which is not a good thing for a sniper but there are times it would come in handy to surpress or halt forward movement at a cost of the snipers position.

They are becoming increasingly popular... the "AR10" style of rifles... US M110, Australian SR25, Brits use a 7.62 AR10 style rifle as well (LWRC?? I can't remember)