Which aperture for a lee enfield No4 mk2

Can i have some recomendations for a replacement aperture for my lee Enfield no4 mk2 to replace the 300/600 sight.
I'm wanting it for hunting rather than target shooting.

The rifle is grouping nicely but for the 100 yard distance, I'd prefer to be aiming at the deer rather than beneath it

Keen to avoid the standard ladder aperture but don't know enough of the difference parker hale models

I have been considering a williams peep sight but it sounds like some grinding down of the metal work that i want to avoid (rifle fullwood but with non matching bolt and mag)

Fill 600 hole with solder or weld and re drill hole lower for 100 zero

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Originally Posted by m101a1

Fill 600 hole with solder or weld and re drill hole lower for 100 zero

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Hadn't thought of that. Am also trying to get hold of a smaller front sight, but need to do the maths first to work out the change in size needed

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Originally Posted by Manchester

Can i have some recomendations for a replacement aperture for my lee Enfield no4 mk2 to replace the 300/600 sight.
I'm wanting it for hunting rather than target shooting.
The rifle is grouping nicely but for the 100 yard distance, I'd prefer to be aiming at the deer rather than beneath it
Keen to avoid the standard ladder aperture but don't know enough of the difference parker hale models
I have been considering a Williams peep sight but it sounds like some grinding down of the metal work that i want to avoid (rifle full wood but with non matching bolt and mag)

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I'd just build up the height of the front post with a substantial bead of white paint. For 100 yards that's OK as the factory front post is very narrow and at best poorly visible in lower light on a dark background. Or epoxy on a piece of green nylon string along the top of the post for TruGlo effect.

Note that, the No. 4 shoots a bit lower with its bayonet attached. The 300/600 yard flip sight was actually designed so that when the sight was set to 300 a soldier could "engage targets up to 300 yards with the bayonet attached" Anyway, don't go hunting with bayonet attached, you'd look a real dork. Blob of paint is more discrete and useful. Also the "up to 300" applies to military shooting in which the target is a vertical head/torso/legs, but quadriped deer and goats have horizontal torsos which leaves less vertical margin of error.

I'd spend spare cash on a 'sniper'/cheek pad for non-strained shooting position. Helps with iron sights too, not just telescopic sights. If you are not sure about this, do some sustained dry firing practice on the living room floor for 20 minutes and if by then you feel strain in the back of your neck, then a cheek pad will be useful to you. The wooden reproductions will look best, but you can get velcro ones too.

IAnyway, don't go hunting with bayonet attached, you'd look a real dork.

I prefer to avoid being thought a dork while hunting, So don't attach it to the rifle while hunting. Only after i see a deer do i attach it, but i find the shouted 'fix bayonets' command seems to scare the deer. Maybe they don't like it up em?

This one shoots quite well.Attachment 141862

He swapped out the original sight with a flip up ladder sight he bought off EBay.Put "No4 rear sight" into the search bar and the results will give you an idea of what to look for in NZ

Many moons ago, Graham Henry showed me a 303 that he had sporterised, think he even wrote an article in the Rod and Rifle about sporterising the the 303. He had used the small peep sight that is fitted to the rear of the action, the one where you flip it for one distance and turn it over for the other. That may very well be your 300/600 peep. What he did is open up the closest one to 3mm, and carefully reduced the outside of the peep as well so it had a much finer "circle" to look through. He also completely removed the other one so you never got it wrong. And I think he fixed it somehow so it was always standing. He then sighted it for 100 metres, possibly using a higher foresight. He told me the human eye is an amazing thing, being round, if you look through a round hole it will always try to centralise what ever you are looking at. And what ever you are looking through doesnt have to be big or ugly, the finer, less obtrusive the better. And a human eye will always centralise no matter what size hole you are looking through, so you dont lose any ability by opening it out to 3 mm, but you do gain in dull light conditions. He then shot the rifle and was able to shoot 3" groups @ 200 yds no problem.

Keep an eye out for a parker hale 5c rear aperture sight.
It attaches via the flip sight screw and the ejector screw and requires no alteration to the rifle at all. That will tickeep the box you want, otherwise the ladder sight offers the best option with a 300 battle aperture but a 200 setting on the ladder.

Had the same problem with my sporterized Faz mkII.Kept the original Faz ladder rear, then swapped out the incorrect foresight blade for an original plus.075'' which now gives a 100 yard zero using 150 grain soft points, so no more 6 o'clock hold. Should add that grouping is using the ladder in the depressed position i.e using the larger diameter top "battle" peep.Your mkII should be wearing the 200-1300 yard ladder to be correct, not the 300/600 flip which is correct to the MKI* BTW our local fuzzy wuzzies dont like it up em either

Greetings Bluebaiter 222,
I think you have identified the simplest fix in installing a higher front site but there is another way. You may be able to use hand loads to sight in the rifle. I suspect that you are using 150 grain loads which may make the problem worse but you could try cutting your load a couple of grains to see if that brings the zero down. Also a switch to 174 or 180 grain projectiles may help. You don't need barrel straining velocity to bring down a deer with a .303, 2,200 fps is more than enough. I was lucky that my No 4 was close to dead on with 174 grain round noses and a reduced load. Chaz Forsyth did an article in NZ Guns a few years back on differences for point of impact with various projectile weights in a 303. I will have a hunt for it and report .
Regards Grandpamac.

@Manchester how high is the group at 100yds? The easiest solution as already suggested is a higher foresight. Back in the "day" the old guys at the fullbore club I was a member of usually had a selection of them in their range boxes.

It is easy to calculate how much higher it needs to be. In the past I have 5 minute araldited a higher blade to the front of the existing foresight just to try for correct elevation and then done something more permanent either easy flow a higher blade to the existing blade (and maybe wider as suggested) or make a a new foresight. They aren't too hard to make.

Question: Is the rifle as original with the battle foresight protector ears or has the rifle been sporterised and the protector removed?

Greetings Again,
The article was in Issue 161 of NZ Guns and Hunting. Chaz found that the 150 shot higher than the 174 grains, about 150 to 200 mm depending on whether from a bench or sitting.

Zimmer, I am intrigued by your question about the fore sight protector. My iron sight No 4 still has one and shoots close to point of aim. Your insight on this would be appreciated.

Regards Grandpamac.

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings Again,
The article was in Issue 161 of NZ Guns and Hunting. Chaz found that the 150 shot higher than the 174 grains, about 150 to 200 mm depending on whether from a bench or sitting.

Zimmer, I am intrigued by your question about the fore sight protector. My iron sight No 4 still has one and shoots close to point of aim. Your insight on this would be appreciated.

Regards Grandpamac.

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Nah it was just if adding a blade to the existing foresight , if the attaching method is not robust it could get knocked off plowing thru bush etc.

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

Um, if he's aiming under the deer at 100 isn't a taller foresight going to make him aim at the ground? Or am I getting this totally wrong? He needs to file a small amount off the foresight to lift the muzzle as the easiest solution, combines with opening out the rear sight hole to allow more light in for hunting in bush. The thinning down of the outside of the peep sight isn't a bad idea either to be honest - more light and more field of view is always good!

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My understanding of the OP's issue is the groups are high at 100yds when using the battle sight (ie aiming low to get a hit). To lower the POI either the rear sight aperture has to be lowered or the front blade raised. Have I read the issue wrong?

The 2 hole aperture flip battle sights already have nice sized holes in them equivalent to modern ghost rings. They allow for quick target aquisition.

By pure coincidence, this just came out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keZoROIMxbQ

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

Um, if he's aiming under the deer at 100 isn't a taller foresight going to make him aim at the ground? Or am I getting this totally wrong? He needs to file a small amount off the foresight to lift the muzzle as the easiest solution, combines with opening out the rear sight hole to allow more light in for hunting in bush. The thinning down of the outside of the peep sight isn't a bad idea either to be honest - more light and more field of view is always good!

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Good point to raise (pardon the pun!).

Currently he has to aim too far below his POI. He did not clarify if the hold-inder is too extreme or if it is just the regular use of that sight type. I'm personally happy with holding the sight post immediately below the post like this:

( i )

With a built up front sight post with a blob of paint or whatever, the blob will be nearer to, touch, or even overlay the POI. He will have to change the way he uses his sights of course. The disadvantage of building up to a truglo spot overlying the target is of course that you partially obscure the target - but not so much a problem at only 100 yards.

Had the same issue with a fully wooded No4, It had the 300/600 and shot high at the 100 mark (understandable) As the front sight is protected I filed a new front sight out of Deer antler and spray painted it black. Kept the original front sight and to look at the rifle you wouldn`t know the difference. Works perfectly.

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Originally Posted by Tasbay

Had the same issue with a fully wooded No4, It had the 300/600 and shot high at the 100 mark (understandable) As the front sight is protected I filed a new front sight out of Deer antler and spray painted it black. Kept the original front sight and to look at the rifle you wouldn`t know the difference. Works perfectly.

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Snort! Lee Antfield (-:

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Originally Posted by Solo

By pure coincidence, this just came out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keZoROIMxbQ

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"We won't do the flip battle sight because it [the range] is stamped on it". Haha, such faith.

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

Um, if he's aiming under the deer at 100 isn't a taller foresight going to make him aim at the ground? Or am I getting this totally wrong? He needs to file a small amount off the foresight to lift the muzzle as the easiest solution, combines with opening out the rear sight hole to allow more light in for hunting in bush. The thinning down of the outside of the peep sight isn't a bad idea either to be honest - more light and more field of view is always good!

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A taller fore sight will be needed to bring the POI down. Currently the need to aim under the deer is due to the rifle shooting high. Filing the fore sight will just make it shoot higher. Iron sights take a bit of getting used to for those who have mostly used scopes previously. Seems back to front at first.
Grandpamac.

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Originally Posted by Cordite

"We won't do the flip battle sight because it [the range] is stamped on it". Haha, such faith.

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To be fair, he's checking them against each other, not actually loading up with Mk VII ammo to check if the sights do what they say they do.

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

Ah yeah right, caught up now. Thinking upside down, too used to adjustables and scopes as you say. In the days past when I was doing a lot of LE post changes I had a box of front blades and a formula for working it out. You don't have to think that way, just plug the result in and fit the required blade. I recall now the saying was something like hit high, fit high/hit low fit low - but no real need for it now as irons are generally only good for feck all (and target). I did a wee bit with them in the early days of my hunting, but in any sort of crap or inclement weather found them crap and soon moved on.

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My iron sighted rifles are mostly used on the range and in one of our local comps for iron sights on deer targets. A nice light rifle (probably not a Lee Enfield) with sturdy aperture and blade is great to take along on a not really hunting bush walk. Even better if it is a break open that you can take down and stash in your pack should the mood take you.
Regards Grandpamac.

I really like the ghost rings that came on my 45-70, but the possibility of encountering a deer that wants to stand more than 30m away from me means I'm fitting a scope. I'm confident I could hit it with irons, just not confident enough that it'd be an ethical shot.

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

Ironically enough, the opposite problem exists too. I had an old matriarch hind barking at me from the other side of a flax bush, I was barking back and it was just enough to unsettle her that she stayed and we barked at each other for about 10 minutes. I could see an eye and a vague outline by mk1 eyeball, knew it was a deer but there was just too much magnification to make the details out by scope. Me companion was like, why didn't you shoot - and I was like I couldn't see it through around or beside the scope. I would have taken the shot with irons, but to be fair thats the only time that has happened to me!

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Now, this is the sort of excuse I need to mount an offset red dot and make my gun look completely try-hard...

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Originally Posted by Solo

Now, this is the sort of excuse I need to mount an offset red dot and make my gun look completely try-hard...

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Someone please market an adapter gizmo which lets you mount a pistol red dot scope over a folded-down No 4 ladder sight.

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

I thought someone did, or maybe it fitted into the rear sight mount hole?

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I've seen a parker hale scope rail in two pieces where the rear rail replaces the flip up ladder sight. Not sure how the front rail looks.

Attachment 141920

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Originally Posted by Solo

I really like the ghost rings that came on my 45-70, but the possibility of encountering a deer that wants to stand more than 30m away from me means I'm fitting a scope. I'm confident I could hit it with irons, just not confident enough that it'd be an ethical shot.

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Greetings Solo,
Using aperture sights looks quite primitive to someone used to a scope but they are really quite good. The trick is to look through the aperture without trying to center the foresight in it. Your eye will naturally do that. Focus on the foresight and not the target. This will make the target a little out of focus but you will be able to place the foresight precisely. And most important, aim for the boiler room. No fancy meat saving shots, just plant it in the lungs. In the US they use the 45-70 and 45-90 for shooting metal pig targets at 500 metres. They shoot prone using crossed sticks. They also shoot the chickens at 200 metres standing. All with aperture sights. They do practice a lot.
Regards Grandpamac.

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings Solo,
Using aperture sights looks quite primitive to someone used to a scope but they are really quite good. The trick is to look through the aperture without trying to center the foresight in it. Your eye will naturally do that. Focus on the foresight and not the target. This will make the target a little out of focus but you will be able to place the foresight precisely. And most important, aim for the boiler room. No fancy meat saving shots, just plant it in the lungs. In the US they use the 45-70 and 45-90 for shooting metal pig targets at 500 metres. They shoot prone using crossed sticks. They also shoot the chickens at 200 metres standing. All with aperture sights. They do practice a lot.
Regards Grandpamac.

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In fairness, don't they also have that special spray so their aperture sights don't fog up?

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings Solo,
Using aperture sights looks quite primitive to someone used to a scope but they are really quite good. The trick is to look through the aperture without trying to center the foresight in it. Your eye will naturally do that. Focus on the foresight and not the target. This will make the target a little out of focus but you will be able to place the foresight precisely. And most important, aim for the boiler room. No fancy meat saving shots, just plant it in the lungs. In the US they use the 45-70 and 45-90 for shooting metal pig targets at 500 metres. They shoot prone using crossed sticks. They also shoot the chickens at 200 metres standing. All with aperture sights. They do practice a lot.
Regards Grandpamac.

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That's the thing, I could definitely hit the deer, I just don't trust my ability to hit a specific part of the deer enough to risk the animal's welfare. Deer aren't kind enough to wear little targets over their vital organs, so when I look at them through irons the danger is they'll blend into one mass, and I won't be sure exactly where I'm aiming. I'm not a fan of fancy meat-saving shots even with a scope, and especially not with a slow round.