ATEC Suppressor experience, problems, and troubleshooting thread

Figured this might be a good way to discuss a few issues people have mentioned they have experienced with the ALock system as well as a thread to just discuss the suppressors and any experiences or solutions in future so its easy for people to find rather than a comment here and a comment there throughout the forum.

For context:

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Originally Posted by tibo

I have the a-tec on my 7mm prc and the dpt on my 6.5 creedmoor so not a fair comparison. They both doing what they are supposed to do and on both the brake end cap is probably reducing the remaining recoil by a third of what’s left vs can without.

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Originally Posted by Stocky

Why? There's no way I'd run any suppressor without a decent rear bushing without a locking style mount.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by tibo

Didn’t pay attention between shot, A-lock system got loose and supressor launched down range 120m to beat… had also point of impact moving slightly around between shooting session depending how hard I was tightening the A-lock

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stocky

2 questions I guess.

My alock is so tight I've had to break it free with the vice before ive got to the point i lather it liberally in silver antisieze. Are you sure your adapter didn't loosen? Guess if just the suppressor launched it has to be the alock.

On POI are you sure your rifles as accurate as you think/does your scope actually hold zero. I had shifting zeros with a VX3i and managed to track it down to it not liking vibrations when being behind the seat. And also unless you have down a high round composite group "shifting zero" is often just the real accuracy of a rifle being observed over a larger sample size (assuming your meaning 0.25-0.5 moa shifts) gimp threads are a decent example of this. When I sighted in prior to the Shoot a few weeks ago if I'd zeroed of the forst 5 I'd have been high 0.2mils and left 0.2 mils at 10 shots with 1 "flyer" I'd have been high 0.2 and left 0.1. That's the most extreme I've seen it with 10 I don't think most people's rifles cone of fire is as good as they think (not that it really matters in most cases)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by tibo

We should perhaps create a new thread, it's not really an A-tec discussion. "My alock is so tight I've had to break it free with the vice before" how does that work? the alock is inside the suppressor quite deep how do you get a vice in there? or do you mean you had to secure your suppressor in a vice to unscrew the barrel?

It happened few years ago during second session at the range. I got it tight during first session but then it came loose on the barrel and got stuck in the suppressor. I had to use red loctite on the barrel muzzle thread, wait for it to dry to then manage to get the aloc free in the can. Then second session I didn't torqued it has hard to not repeat the experience, fired quite a few round this day without checking the can and boom.

Group impact shifting depending the torque applied on the aloc 100%. I'm not the first having reported that. Aloc been now secured inside with Loctite 638 and all good.

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So now to continue things:

I used a vice to hold the suppressor and stop it rotating so i could break it free from the rifle. My ALock adapter is Loctited one and would require significant heat to remove. It was only being done up hand tight, snug but still only hand tight. I now apply liberal amounts of silver anti sieze. I dont understand how you couldn't do this with an overbarrel version as you would be holding the overbarrel portion. I think the confusion was that you assumed id got the adapter stuck in the suppressor not the suppressor stuck on the rifle.

I will try test the POI shift as that is interesting to me and i have plenty of 223 to burn so will do a few 20 or so shot groups to see if theres any measureable shift. I know its been reported but id like to check it as that wpuld be enough for me to potentially go away from them.

Im interested to hear about others that have experienced them loosening or POI shift.

As an aside my experiences with ATEC are with an Optima 45 and Optima 45 Front. In NZ most guys dont make up a rear bushing for the Optima 45 so it is effectively a muzzle forward suppressor as there is very little volume between the isolator tube and outside of the suppressor. The isolator tube is about 24mm ID and about 1.5mm thick whilst the outer is about 45mm and about the same. This only leaves about 7.5mm of air gap around the barrel section and its behind the muzzle so is already less efficient. I decided it probably wasnt worth the weight. My opinion might differ if a rear bushing was being used.

I personally run just 1 module on my 223 and it suppresses quite adequately (new info says its 4db louder with 1 module, old info used to say 1db), weighs about 200grams, is only 90mm forward and has a stainless core.

Interesting… I’ve been running a couple of over barrel 45’s for a few years now both with only one module on .222/.223 .243 and 6.5cm and have never had any of the issues above. I have always from the get go put anti seize on the adapter though. The a-loc 1/4 turn to put the supp on take it off is the main reason I changed so quick and easy.


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My lock is too tight. But I don't know how to loosen it.

I was only having POI moving between session as I was probably not tightening it enough and consistently

You are supposed to loctite the A-Lock to the barrel to avoid getting it stuck in the suppressor accidentally. And they do say to check the suppressors are still done up tight periodically.

I've not observed a POI shift on any of the rifles I move my ones between. I do put them on in the same orientation each time (based on nothing but superstition).

I have loctited the A-Lock inside of one of them to convert it to direct thread (all the rifles it was being shared between had the same thread anyway). That has tried to come loose on one rifle over the course of a night's shooting (~100rds)... but I suspect any other direct thread suppressor would have done the same.

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Originally Posted by Pommy

You are supposed to loctite the A-Lock to the barrel to avoid getting it stuck in the suppressor accidentally. And they do say to check the suppressors are still done up tight periodically.

I've not observed a POI shift on any of the rifles I move my ones between. I do put them on in the same orientation each time (based on nothing but superstition).

I have loctited the A-Lock inside of one of them to convert it to direct thread (all the rifles it was being shared between had the same thread anyway). That has tried to come loose on one rifle over the course of a night's shooting (~100rds)... but I suspect any other direct thread suppressor would have done the same.

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Yeh I'm very cautious of direct thread suppressors without a well fit bushing. Definitely required a crush washer with the AR pre ban.

Pommy is right. They can go on in two places. Mark one and always start it in that orientation. Groups may not open up, but may shift slightly. Make sure the bush has clarence form touching the barrel. They do seem to be able to move a bit. Do put some thread lubricant on the baffle threads. Do not tighten them more than just touching as they will be a pain to separate. Take them apart as often as you can. You will soon learn to feel just how much to tighten each section without them jamming. Just check periodically during shooting. Same when putting the suppressor on the barrel a-lock. Let the suppressor cool right down before trying to remove off the barrel if you're having trouble when it comes time to take it of when you've been shooting. I have one and after a bit of frustration, these simple rituals have meant no more annoying instances.

Another thing clean your atec spray crc, wd40 on baffle ect. They corrode quite fast inside otherwise, faster than my other suppressor.

I have had a couple for a while (a H2 and a Mega H2) and used one in particular a quite often. I also have 5 other DPT and a Waitaki Stainless one from my crushed naughty gun.

Apart from the dumb operator forgetting to actually lock it on with 1/4 turn and sending off downrange nearly 100m. It has been pretty much flawless.

Yes I also found the POI moved a little when removing and reattaching but not enough to cause a miss on a deer sized animal as far as I would consider my max range (350m).
It also seems to take one shot to settle after being clicked onto A-loc. Again not enough to cause a miss.

the A-Loc has never come loose. The loctite used was Loctite 638 which is not red in colour but green and what A-Tec recommend.

My A-loc was removed about 8 months ago by Joel at Stager Sport after a bit of discussion and then he permanently fitted it to the suppressor so it is now the same attachement method as most others. We also removed the "bush" from the rear. Now I have 100% repeatibility. Interestingly it does not shoot loose over the course of 5-10 consecutive shots like my other suppressors seem to do.

Now this on a gun I use exclusively on the range for shooting smallish steel plates so a small POI impact did cause me a bit of grief at time.

However I did not choose A-Tec based on the A-Loc feature but simply the MegaH2 offered the best noise reduction I could find at the time. The barrel does get quite hot under the over-barrel section of the suppressor after 5-10 rounds shot quickly.

Now after 1193 shots thru it it has some carbon build up in the first section but the rest looks like its almost new. I would / will be buying more A-tec. I use WD40 on baffles after every use.

Also Joel @ Stager spent quite a bit of time getting the A-loc off even though he has the tool for doing it, cleaning up the threads and Loctiting the A-Loc back into the suppressor all at NO Charge and while I waited. Outstanding service I thought.

They also sell replacement O-Ring/Grease Kits for them.

I think they get hard to detach from the A-Loc as when they heat up both bits expand gripping harder. if removing is difficult by hand I found using a oil filter removal stap wrench works with a helper holding the rifle firmly.

They are a very good suppressor I think.

Old man uses one of these on commercial rigs so I'm sure it's probably had 40,000 rounds down it and goes from an AR15 to a Mag research 22 mag, to a 223 tikka and back to the AR15 over and over again, he loves it.

Maybe some photos of the different baffle styles. I'm in no way familiar with the H2 etc series of baffles from some of the comments they sound like they might be more traditional?

The H2/H3 uses single piece baffles. They are an unusual looking design - will try and post up a pic tomorrow. The "modules" on the Optima series use two different materials.

The way I've had it explained is that the different thermal expansion rates of the two materials in the Optima suppressors makes them less suited to higher rates of fire. The H2/H3's can take a bit of heat no problem.

Also using a MegaH2 on an 8.6blk and 338 Edge. The noise reduction is incredible.

And on the corrosion thing... I think the powder you use might play into it a lot. For example, I use AP100 for subs in 8.6blk and a couple of days after shooting it, there are actually crystals growing on the birdcage flash hider thingy inside it, and when you look through the length of the suppressor there's white fuzzy stuff in the bore.

Nylon cleaning brush down it to clear the bore and then a few supers to blow all the shit out and it doesn't come back. So it's like it's just the residue from AP100 that's particularly nasty.

Hi Team,

Joel here from Stäger. Actually some good info on this thread. Some points from my experience I think could help:
- In the last 7 years I have had three gents reckon they saw a small POI shift when they remounted the suppressor onto the A-Lock in a different clock position. One gentleman (Mikee I believe) is an extremely good shooter (consistent sub 1/4moa groups) so we could hand-on-heart observe the phenomenon. The POI shift was about half moa or so, something like that eh Mike? The solution was to reattach the suppressor to the same clock position each time and this instantly fixed the problem. I remount my suppressor each time with the logo uppermost, solved. Logically using about the same force/torque estimated by hand would help too but is undetectable in my testing, "tight" works.
- Suppressor maintenance in my humble opinion is mostly about preventing combustion remnants and humidity forming a corrosive solution inside the can. It gets into the material and corrodes it, google aluminium corrosion. WD40 sprayed all around into the can after each use is a great idea.
- Pommy's point about the H3 using all Alu baffles and the Optima series using SS and Alu baffles is spot on. In the Optima the SS is locked into a Alu tube. If the unit is heated too fast, the materials expand at different rates and the bond between these material is weakened and worst case can break.
-- The Optima material selection is to minimise weight but still maximise product lifespan. So to help customer choice we have clear info on the design purpose of each model on our NZ website. In the case of the Optima series they are meant for pure hunting where rate of fire and therefore temperature is lower than other applications.
-- H3 baffles are all Alu; so whilst Alu plastic/melting temp is much lower than SS, it's a single material so expands uniformly.
-- Have a look at our A-Tec product pages for the image showing all the suppressors in a row which discusses heat resistance and design purpose.
- Heat resistant lube on the baffle threads is a great idea. Get some from repco or supercheap, or we have it available.
- Heat resistant lube on the outside of the A-Lock is a good idea, although I've found some clients want the suppressor to be firmly stuck on and really hard to remove from the A-Lock as that gives them a feeling of security. So in any case, regularly checking the suppressor is tight on the muzzle is a great habit for any attachment method. Can tell a funny story over a beer some day about a colleague shooting a suppressor off his M4 in the ghan...learning is fun.
- When fitting A-Locks to the muzzle thread I have found one should use COPIUS loctite. Some folks underdo it by just putting a couple of spots on the thread. There are some good YT videos demonstrating how much fluid is needed to lock a thread. In short drown it in loctite, both the muzzle thread and the A-Lock female thread. Mount the A-Lock, wipe off the excess, patch the barrel and use moderate torque to tweak up the A-lock. Better still use one of our retail partners or gunsmith partners to order the A-Lock and fit it for you.
- On older generations of our suppressors, A-Tec would have us bore the rear bushing with 0.1mm radius clearance around the barrel. In practice this could cause fliers out of a usually tight group due to the bush contacting the barrel intermittently. Not always observed, but happened from time to time. In the current products the rear bush is supplied with a larger clearance to prevent this. It can even be left off if desired.
- We or our partners can lock the A-Lock into the suppressor so you can sue it like a conventional screw on if desired. This is permanent or at least I haven't been able to get one out yet.

Cheers
Jbrad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stäger Sport

Hi Team,

Joel here from Stäger. Actually some good info on this thread. Some points from my experience I think could help:
- In the last 7 years I have had three gents reckon they saw a small POI shift when they remounted the suppressor onto the A-Lock in a different clock position. One gentleman (Mikee I believe) is an extremely good shooter (consistent sub 1/4moa groups) so we could hand-on-heart observe the phenomenon. The POI shift was about half moa or so, something like that eh Mike? The solution was to reattach the suppressor to the same clock position each time and this instantly fixed the problem. I remount my suppressor each time with the logo uppermost, solved. Logically using about the same force/torque estimated by hand would help too but is undetectable in my testing, "tight" works.
- Suppressor maintenance in my humble opinion is mostly about preventing combustion remnants and humidity forming a corrosive solution inside the can. It gets into the material and corrodes it, google aluminium corrosion. WD40 sprayed all around into the can after each use is a great idea.
- Pommy's point about the H3 using all Alu baffles and the Optima series using SS and Alu baffles is spot on. In the Optima the SS is locked into a Alu tube. If the unit is heated too fast, the materials expand at different rates and the bond between these material is weakened and worst case can break.
-- The Optima material selection is to minimise weight but still maximise product lifespan. So to help customer choice we have clear info on the design purpose of each model on our NZ website. In the case of the Optima series they are meant for pure hunting where rate of fire and therefore temperature is lower than other applications.
-- H3 baffles are all Alu; so whilst Alu plastic/melting temp is much lower than SS, it's a single material so expands uniformly.
-- Have a look at our A-Tec product pages for the image showing all the suppressors in a row which discusses heat resistance and design purpose.
- Heat resistant lube on the baffle threads is a great idea. Get some from repco or supercheap, or we have it available.
- Heat resistant lube on the outside of the A-Lock is a good idea, although I've found some clients want the suppressor to be firmly stuck on and really hard to remove from the A-Lock as that gives them a feeling of security. So in any case, regularly checking the suppressor is tight on the muzzle is a great habit for any attachment method. Can tell a funny story over a beer some day about a colleague shooting a suppressor off his M4 in the ghan...learning is fun.
- When fitting A-Locks to the muzzle thread I have found one should use COPIUS loctite. Some folks underdo it by just putting a couple of spots on the thread. There are some good YT videos demonstrating how much fluid is needed to lock a thread. In short drown it in loctite, both the muzzle thread and the A-Lock female thread. Mount the A-Lock, wipe off the excess, patch the barrel and use moderate torque to tweak up the A-lock. Better still use one of our retail partners or gunsmith partners to order the A-Lock and fit it for you.
- On older generations of our suppressors, A-Tec would have us bore the rear bushing with 0.1mm radius clearance around the barrel. In practice this could cause fliers out of a usually tight group due to the bush contacting the barrel intermittently. Not always observed, but happened from time to time. In the current products the rear bush is supplied with a larger clearance to prevent this. It can even be left off if desired.
- We or our partners can lock the A-Lock into the suppressor so you can sue it like a conventional screw on if desired. This is permanent or at least I haven't been able to get one out yet.

Cheers
Jbrad.

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Thanks Joel, great info! off topic but is there much difference between H2 and H3?

Hey Tibo,

H2 to H3 change is minor, just the shape and angle of the gas ports inside the baffle modules was improved based on their constant totooing over there. So just a slight overall performance improvement with the main outcome was rather improved first round pop. Right when it came out, the iso mil std testing regime was updated which created confusion around comparing older generation products to new generation products. There is a couple of H2's on the market which are a tad cheaper as there was a mnfr price increase at that same time too (how 2020's f%#k $ake lol).

Cheers
Jbrad.

Optima50 module...

Attachment 259494

(One very dirty) MegaH2 module...

Attachment 259495

Got the tools for doing up the A-Locks properly here.

Hey guys, I'm looking at getting an ATEC for my model 7, 300 wsm and was after some advice on the differences between the optima 40, 45, 50, and the H3 and what option of those you would prefer

Thinking about the Optima, it looks as if it has some muzzle brake function inside but if you want muzzle jump/ twist control you need the brake end cap ?

@JoshB, the difference between the 40, 45, and 50 is diameter (and therefore volume). For a 300wsm I'd suggest the Optima50 or the H3. Feel free to PM me.

@Bagheera, yes you need the brake end cap to get additional recoil mitigation. That's because no matter what trickery you do inside of a suppressor, the gas is part of a closed system and the forces will cancel out internally. E.g. if you have a brake inside a suppressor, some gas gets redirected backwards, counteracting recoil from the bullet. That gas then impinges on the back of the suppressor, increasing the recoil again... It's when the gas exits the suppressor where it becomes an open system. If it's venting forward, it's adding to recoil. If it can be redicted back/out, it can give you a net reduction in recoil.

Apologies for necro'ing the thread.

I am having issues with my ATEC Marksman , which is supposed to be their 'military' model.

twice has it cooked off red loctite , and now I'm stuck with a very expensive direct thread can which I have traditionally shared between two rifles in it's QD State which is what drew me to it.

The suppressor is seized on the Marksman brake after about 120rds of shooting 7.62 Ball, and the brake itself is not on the rifle. it's stuck in the can.

A little dissapointing , if I'm completely honest.

no amount of heat or penetrative oil is looking like it will release this , I tried to put the can in a vice and wrap the Brake threads as the locking collar has come off , but at the risk of marring the threads further than I already accidentally have , I stopped.

I really hope I'm not lumped with this as direct thread now , lest I would have just bought an ODL.

Not like it was cheap!

That being said , I Can't pin Stager for their customer service - They've been nothing but excellent to date and sent me a wrench for the collar at no charge - so this is far from a bashing post.


Attachment 264442Attachment 264443

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Originally Posted by Masperjay

Apologies for necro'ing the thread.

I am having issues with my ATEC Marksman , which is supposed to be their 'military' model.

twice has it cooked off red loctite , and now I'm stuck with a very expensive direct thread can which I have traditionally shared between two rifles in it's QD State which is what drew me to it.

The suppressor is seized on the Marksman brake after about 120rds of shooting 7.62 Ball, and the brake itself is not on the rifle. it's stuck in the can.

A little dissapointing , if I'm completely honest.

no amount of heat or penetrative oil is looking like it will release this , I tried to put the can in a vice and wrap the Brake threads as the locking collar has come off , but at the risk of marring the threads further than I already accidentally have , I stopped.

I really hope I'm not lumped with this as direct thread now , lest I would have just bought an ODL.

Not like it was cheap!

That being said , I Can't pin Stager for their customer service - They've been nothing but excellent to date and sent me a wrench for the collar at no charge - so this is far from a bashing post.


Attachment 264442Attachment 264443

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Also Re Loctite - A lot was used (no , not on the suppressor threads)Attachment 264444

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Originally Posted by Masperjay

Also Re Loctite - A lot was used (no , not on the suppressor threads)Attachment 264444

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Have you tried this Loctite 638 which is not red in colour but green and what A-Tec recommend.

loctite-638-retaining-compound-high-strength-50ml-3

Perhaps a thorough clean, degrease and correct "loctite primer" might be a good thing too.

What Mikee said, clean all red loctite first

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Originally Posted by mikee

Have you tried this Loctite 638 which is not red in colour but green and what A-Tec recommend.

loctite-638-retaining-compound-high-strength-50ml-3

Perhaps a thorough clean, degrease and correct "loctite primer" might be a good thing too.

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:thumbsup:

What he said!
I am using Loctite® 638 and never had a single issue with the A-Lock adapter for three years now.
Even after shooting the barrel quite hot in a driven game simulator with full power hunting ammo...

Cheers
Ben